Do Most Post-op Transsexual women Really Embrace the Transgender Umbrella?

This week end I was challenged by one of the Borg and told to STFU and disappear, that most post-ops embraced the Transgender Umbrella.

Which didn’t actually jibe with my real life experiences.

This isn’t to say they are so caught up in all things transsexual as to embrace HBS, ‘Classic Transsexual” or even WBT as an alternative.

Rather most become post-transsexual.  It isn’t going stealth particularly, because they still have friends who are also post-transsexual, hell they may even have transgender friends.

But they don’t give a rat’s ass one way or another about the whole pile of transgender crapolla that seems to be the obsession of the Transgender Borg.

Question:  How do you know when you are talking to a member of the Transgender Borg Collective?  Answer:  No matter what topic you bring up they put a transgender interpretation or slant on it.

Mention how hot it has been and how weird the weather has been and you have to listen to something about transgender people in the women’s shelter and how there shouldn’t be any sort of medical requirement to back up claims of “female identity”.  Mention how fucked up it is to be in an eternal war in the Middle East and get prepared to hear about the plight of transgender service people.

Mostly though I notice how most of us have a life beyond Transgender World.  We don’t live and breathe or obsess on all things transgender.

When I start listening to one of the Transgender Borg babble on about gender and identity my eyes glaze over and  I start thinking dark thoughts regarding the Borg’s grasp on reality.

Now I know there are a ton of “Professional Transgenders” who have never escaped the Borg Collective.  Either they are professional lobbyists or activists.  some are professional care givers, others are sex workers and entertainers.

But they are only a minority of those of us who had sex change operations.  People know about them and claim them as transgender because they have chosen to wear the t-shirt that says transgender rather than to assimilate in to the real world as an ordinary woman or man.

I’ve watched people leave the on-line fray between the transsexuals and transgender for the 15+ years that I have been on line.  People get tired of fighting and unlike transgender folks have real lives in the real world.

I think those of us who stay and fight realize the negative impact the whole transgender ideology has not only on transsexuals but on assigned female at birth women.

Silencing those who dissent from a party line is not the same as having people agree with the party line.  Nor is having people get tired of arguing and say fuck it I have better ways to spend my time the same as having them agree to be part of the Transgender Umbrella.

When post-SRS but not post-transsexual women say to me, “But I consider myself transgender and part of the transgender umbrella.” I think, “That’s really sad.”   Even sadder is when they add how they will never abandon the community.  You can’t be both transgender and a woman.  They are mutually exclusive.  To be transgender is to be in-between hence the usage of cisexual and cisgender for non-transgender folks.

No matter how the Transgender Borg present their ideology it doesn’t permit people they have colonized to transition into being ordinary men and women because ordinary men and women are by definition what the Transgender Borg refer to as Cissexuals/Cisgenders.

When I look at the arguments I feel like I’m in a real life version of a 1950s Ted Sturgeon SciFi novel.

So like the majority of post-transsexual women I don’t want to be part of the Transgender Borg Collective.

Unlike most I’m a politically radical old left wing dyke and speak out against people I view as oppressing women.  I view transgender ideology’s  substitution of gender for sex as a point of classification  as oppressing women.

Others have different reasons for speaking out.

But those of us who speak out are a minority just as those who side with the Transgender Borg are a minority.

If you recall the slightly pejorative term, “stealth” which implies hiding but really means just being an ordinary woman or man and not necessarily a straight woman or man then most post-transsexual women are stealth to one degree or another.  Don’t mistake having a Blog for being out, especially when there are seven billion people on this blue marble floating in space and only a few hundred visit my Blog each day.

Most post-transsexual women are not a part of the Transgender Borg Community.  Only those I think of as the enablers and activist, who are either young privileged gender studies majors or privileged middle aged folks who were professionals and are now professional activists.

I nearly spew soda all over my monitor whenever I read someone talk about post-transsexual women as though they are part of some sort of community other than the greater community of women. When  the only thing many of us actually have in common is that we had sex reassignment surgery.  Oh, and that we do not like being told we have to be part of the Transgender Borg Cult.

I just know there will be other post-transsexual women reading this who will write on their blogs, “Well, Suzan over at Women Born Transsexual has a good post up and makes a really solid point but her politics are appalling.”

I actually think it is time for us to get past expecting other sisters to be part of a community with shared ideals or politics. Agree to differ on those things we differ on and agree on those we agree upon.

Otherwise we will all have to act like transgender dicks are really “neo-clits” and scrotums are neo-labia”.  When I hear that sort of shit I just shake my head and ask, “Are these people fucking insane?”

24 Responses to “Do Most Post-op Transsexual women Really Embrace the Transgender Umbrella?”

  1. Sharon Sinéad Gaughan Says:

    I do not know which unit within the Borg claimed “that most post-ops embraced the Transgender Umbrella”. TS-Si is in touch with a *very* large number of post-ops. Those absorbed by the Borg are a small minority.

  2. Circé Says:

    Heheh, not frackin likely to embrace the the Transgender Umbrella and become a drone tg borg, I have deleted ” friends ” on my Facebook profile because they are pro-tg umbrella, calling me a trans woman or T woman, ewww. Some still remain but I’m debating the pro’s and con’s of deleting their butts as I’m a lesbian and and painter presently working on a series of pieces depicting queer lives and people. I know I’m something of a contradiction but I stand proudly and own who I am as a female bodied woman of transsexual origin ( born transsexual works also ) and as a queer femme ( not because I’m of transsexual origin but because of my sexual orientation and how I express it ). Of course being a woman will always be where I live but my sexuality speaks to who I love and how I express it and in my case, this does make me queer. I despise when anyone attempts to put me under that ugly umbrella of transgenderism ( the Boys Club ).

    Suzan, I am an avid reader of your articles speaking out against the Transgender Borg collective, you expose them and their nastiness each and every time. Please continue your Blog, you are doing a service for all women.

    Joelle Circé

  3. Julie Says:

    I don’t think trans people are male or female…but are trans…hence the community. Trans people kill themselves far beyond “normals”… hence the community…Trans people often have coomorbidities…from being trans growing up..hence the community.

    As self proclaimed “politically radical old left wing dyke and speak out against people I view as oppressing women” don’t you think real and immediate deaths (and suffering short of death) are important and signs of oppression…so why not the commuity?

    As a pre-op trans woman myself (and married 24 years with four kids, etc.) I absolutley agree that everything shouldn’t be seen through a trans lens…but watching trans people suffer so much means I choose to help in the trans community.

    • Suzan Says:

      I don’t buy the trans-people are a third sex argument. I do consider us male or female. Transsexuals get sex change operations. Transgender people live as members of the sex they are not actually members of. If you want to be part of a Transvestite with a different name community feel free to do so.

      Julie you should read the Saturday post about Concern Trolling> Transvestite Men’s rights Advocates are not high on my list of concerns> As for the suffering within the Transgender Community here’s three suggestions that can help. Stop street walking as a form of sex work. Use condoms so your community cuts the rate of AIDS infection. Get sober the rampant drug and alcohol abuse in the so called Transgender Community is disgraceful.

      You say you are middle aged. I feel safe in assuming you only came out in middle age and came out of the heterosexual male privileged background, quite possibly considered yourself a transvestite for years. As a result your clinging to the Transvestite (Transgender) Community is sort of to be expected.

  4. catkisser Says:

    Because of the work I did first as a former trans activist and later in trying to provide housing for newly transitioned women I have talked, in person, to literally hundreds of post transition and post corrected women over the years. We have exactly two things in common as a rule, we corrected our bodies and consider ourselves cured and we, without a single exception, find being called transgendered the worst possible insult that can be hurled at us.

    The penis privileged transgenders are insane. Very soon the DSM V will be out making that the official position of the psychiatric community.

  5. Sharon Sinéad Gaughan Says:

    The other thing about our resistance to the umbrella: people all over the world feel the same way. The resistance is not some local thing, but from what I have seen, universal.

  6. cyrsti Says:

    I guess my umbrella is leaking and I’m becoming very wet or as a pre-opt person I don’t have an umbrella at all?
    It is very interesting to me that all these T-peeps don’t seem to have a life away from bickering over labels and more disturbing to me that I am reading and responding!!!

  7. catkisser Says:

    I can personally confirm that Nepal’s first and maybe only post corrected woman feels exactly the same, she is staying with me.

  8. Merri Banks Says:

    So I guess as a “privileged middle-aged former professional” (well, a little past the middle ages) my experience and opinion is discounted, but I have to say that most people are really tired of the obsession with labels, and most post-op people I know (dozens, too, I’ve been pretty well connected to the supposedly non-existent community) see the futility of denying their entire experience and life before surgery; and furthermore are disgusted by the posture that assigns value to the particular box in which one may find oneself. If a person chooses to see the commonality of experience as more important than the particular medical response chosen, that does not make them a mindless drone. You might start thinking of everyone as individuals and stop dehumanizing them just because their experience is slightly different than yours.
    So catkisser et al, you can no longer say “without exception” unless you can somehow dehumanize me and thereby expel me from your club.

  9. Zoe Ellen Brain Says:

    While I agree with most of the post, I don’t see post-transition women identifying as TG as being “sad”. It’s just their way.

    Not mine, I fit in the gender binary model quite well. A woman with an interesting and unusual past, but one that has little bearing on my future. Not a lot on my present, either, for that matter.

    I can’t help but be reminded every single month when getting another prescription filled, and yet another blood test every quarter, that I’m not usual biologically, that I can’t escape being Intersex, any more than a Diabetic can escape having Diabetes. It’s not an Identity though for me, the way it is for some.

    “I actually think it is time for us to get past expecting other sisters to be part of a community with shared ideals or politics.”
    I’m considerably right of centre of virtually all my colleagues at the Uni, male or female. So I have no such expectation, that just because someone’s a woman, she must be the same politically as myself.

    We do tend to share ideals though, goals, even if we disagree on methodologies.

  10. catkisser Says:

    Merri, I will continue to say without exception because I am speaking of those I met or know in the real world as opposed to online where anyone can and often is whatever they wish absent any need to deal with reality. I used to take people at their word online until they gave me reason to doubt but I am much more cautious these days.

  11. Sharon Sinéad Gaughan Says:

    One of the earlier comments evokes a common false dilemma, positing the choice between “denying their entire experience and life before surgery” and “commonality of experience as more important than the particular medical response”.

    For people born transsexual who had the cure, the choice is to stand in place and wither — or move on with life. Transgenders have different choices which belong to them.

    Conflating the two serves no one well, particularly the pre-ops who face a situation that ultimately effects their life and/or death.

  12. Danica Criss Says:

    I so agree with you on your point , as I am MtoF , and do not even identify as ” transgender ” or ” transexual ” . I out right identify as a woman . I do not care what the majority and minority think or say about it !

  13. aformeroldfriend Says:

    If Tee-Gees were some kind of third sex some of them wouldn’t be trying to fraudulently obtain documents that say they are female. They would be happy with some kind of third sex on their drivers license or BC.

    They wouldn’t be trying to pull this Orwellian 2+2=5 mind control that Winston was bombarded with in the book 1984.

    Keep your heads high and remember resistance to the smothering umbrella that rapes our identity is our weapon of choice, They can’t fight it because it comes from all directions it’s decentralized. When one of us falls another takes her place.

    Resistance IS Victory.

  14. aformeroldfriend Says:

    More to the point of the thread.
    I know 3 post ops beside myself and none of them have anything to do with the Tee-Gees neither do they identify as trans-anything.

  15. tinagrrl Says:

    Gee, after I was a few months post-op, I went to a “T-support group” meeting at the NYC Center. It was mostly pre-ops and TG identified folks. Our concerns differed. Our focus differed. Our needs differed.

    This was not a case of “elitism”, nor of being in any way “better than”. It really was about having different needs.

    Neither TG folks nor most pre-ops can quite understand it — until they are post-op..

    Staying stuck in the TG communities is tantamount to a form of death.

    We who go ahead and have SRS do so with the intention of completing our transition to women (or men). Staying put means never quite reaching our goal.

    That’s sad.

  16. Karen Says:

    catkisser wrote:
    “We have exactly two things in common as a rule, we corrected our bodies and consider ourselves cured”

    Better yes… but there often is and for some will always remain some related issues. The cure is not perfect, just the best that can be done. That’s one reason why we discuss these issues after all.

    ” and we, without a single exception, find being called transgendered the worst possible insult that can be hurled at us.”

    I don’t like it but I don’t consider it the worst possible insult. That IMO would be blowing the real world consequences of it all out of proportion.

    BTW one thing that is interesting is seeing on-line how people and their opinions change over the years… I’ve seen your posts since CI$ HSX-200 days.

  17. catkisser Says:

    It’s called experience Karen, but I did start writing about transsexual separatism over a decade ago. When you saw my postings back in the CI$ days I was just coming out, just meeting other women of history and the transie-genders for the first time. I had no idea they were mostly sociopaths back then. That took being terrorized for years and years. I encountered Suzan back then as well, apparently when she first came on line and we used to argue about transgender vs transsexual.

  18. Julie Says:

    Suzan, first of all, thanks for the response. (and if there is one thing I didn’t have growing up, it was a male privileged existence…etc. The abuse began early and often…so don’t ass_u_me.)

    I have come to my present state through belief in values (not people, had none to trust, see above re: abuse) even at a young age, and the simplest value, the Golden Rule; “Do unto others…”

    I fully understand your desire to leave it all behind – why be reminded of a miserable life – BUT, here’s what I don’t understand: If you think of yourself as a “helper” why not help those you know best? Why, instead, actively attempt NOT to help a hurting, self destructive community — one form whence you sprang?

    Take care!

    • Suzan Says:

      Nice use of trite cliches, Julie…

      You had male privilege. As did I. It is automatically bestowed as a result of having been born with a penis. It may have been less than some receive but it was there none the less as a result of having been assigned male at birth..

      Blah, blah, blah…

      Miserable life? Mixed opinion. Misery due to having been born transsexual, yes, misery due to being an obvious transkid, yeah definitely. But other things about growing up poor and working class in historically rich if presently impoverished small towns not so much.

      Why do you assume I think of myself as a helper? Why do you assume I sprang from a community of transvestites and transsexuals? When I came out I lived in a cadre that was the equivalent of one of today’s anarchist Black Blocs. I was nurtured by SDS and Weatherman.

      I spent three years in the process of changing sex and maybe an additional five in the process of resocialization, something that could only happen after I got away from transsexuals and transgenders.

      My community today is the community from which I sprang, the left wing hippie community, with strong ties to labor and environmental causes like Earth First and Sea Shepherd. I’m a lesbian, I’m part of the older lesbian community.

      I’m part of the folk music, guitar player community. Part of the world of art through photography and writing. I sports shoot which makes me a contradiction, a left wing gun owner and pro-gun ownership including concealed carry licenses.

      The one thing I am not is transgender. I didn’t come out of the heterosexual transvestite community or even the drag community. I didn’t live in the Tenderloin, I lived in the Haight and Berkeley with a deserter boyfriend and a bunch of hippies.

      I’m more oppressed by all the hippie punching that goes on than I am because long ago I had an operation most people I associate with in 3D know nothing about.

  19. catkisser Says:

    Hippy bashing? Tell me about it! Almost everything said, written or in so called documentaries are total crap that absolutely do not get what happened, who we were and what we believed (and in some cases never stopped believing) in.

    • Suzan Says:

      Hippie punching blames everything “bad” that has happened since 1960 on the “Hippies” whether they actually call them that or not. This really kicked into high gear with Reagan.

      Ever noticed how caring about the environment is a hippie plot? Even driving a fuel efficient car is a hippie plot? How real patriots drive gas guzzling SUVs and huge pickups they never carry anything in? How they clog their arteries wand become hugely obese on the factory farmed crap that passes for meat, how being healthy and eating with some care is a hippie plot?

      The most ironic thing of all is late last night Tina and I were channel surfing and came across the per-steroid Rambo. The one in Rambo-First Blood.

      The right wing pigs hippie bashed him. Which is much closer to the case than the hippies spitting on the returning service men meme that came straight from the Nazi playbook.

      I was part of an organization that encouraged desertion. The rate of desertion and mutinies taking place within the military is what really hastened the end of the war. I remember how the right wingers spit on the returning angry and disgusted military.

      How they trashed the Winter Soldiers and Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

      Look at the hippie punching they pulled on Kerry in 2004.

  20. tinagrrl Says:

    “I fully understand your desire to leave it all behind – why be reminded of a miserable life – BUT, here’s what I don’t understand: If you think of yourself as a “helper” why not help those you know best?”

    Gee, doesn’t that depend on how you define “helping”? Doesn’t telling folks truths they would rather not hear — but will eventually come to themselves, count as “helping”?

    I know I was told stuff by post-ops back when I was pre-op and not yet fully out. I did not want to hear most of it. After all, “this time is different” (as they say about financial bubbles”), My true friends won’t leave me. Etc., etc., etc.

    They were right — I was wrong.

    Once again, I had to learn the most painful way possible.

    What else is new?

    Define “helping”.

  21. M Says:

    Suzan, thank you for writing this stuff. It gives me chills to hear someone talking about this in
    these times.

    I only post with an initial because i do not want my name out there. I am stealth and i am trying
    to be stealth online.

    — M

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