Joelle Ruby Ryan – Proud Of Fetish In Transgender

From TS/IS Liberation:

by Dana Lane Taylor
August 31, 2011

Reposted with Permission

Blog # 62: Why I Love Cross-Dressers

You can’t make this stuff up.

People assigned male at birth who express themselves in a feminine manner on a part-time basis constitute one vital component of that gender diversity. it is just as valid as transsexualism

Just as valid as transsexualism. Really! What the hell does that mean? Does Joelle suffer from transsexualism?

If Transsexual Separatists want nothing to do with the “Transgender Borg” and want off the “Transgender Reservation” (but ironically enough can’t seem to stay away from us to let us know their militant views), so be it. The Transgender Movement, Cross-Dressers included, will go on all the better without your bitterness, divisiveness and me-me-me theatrics.

Earth to Joelle. I am going to pimp slap you, fool! Do you realize that we have been colonized? Do you understand that “transgender” was created to “erase” transsexuals? Did you not see the interview of Yvonne Cook-Riley? Are YOU a woman who was born transsexual or are you just a full time crossdresser? I will do some research later to see how many articles you have published about “women’s rights”. It seems the TeeGee zoo only cares about the rights of men who like to wear women’s clothing.

Attention feminists! Joelle is trying to to help men break from the shackles of a patriarchal society. Yes, you can’t make this shit up.

Cross-Dressers help to liberate men from the shackles of patriarchal masculinity. Feminism has gone a long way to liberate women and men in this society. But it is incomplete because men are still so heavily policed from cradle to grave based on their placement in the category “male.”

Joelle’s outlook on men who target women as a fetish. WOMEN’S RIGHTS!!!

Because the fetish community is also part of our community—deal with it! Now let me be clear: not all Cross-Dressers consider their activity a fetish (in fact most probably don’t) and some receive sexual gratification from cross-dressing and some don’t. But here’s the thing: I stand in complete support of Cross-Dressers who do so solely or primarily for sexual gratification.

I just can’t continue. Go read this piece of crap yourselves if you want. THIS is transgender. THIS is what transgender rights means. To minimize women’s rights, minimize the transsexual condition, so that men can jerk off in women’s panties. WAY TO GO JOELLE! Joelle fully supports “women’s rights” as long as they are just part-time women.

Again, “Transgender” is the transgender communities’ worst enemy.

Joelle Ruby Ryan, would you be willing to stand in front of lawmakers when a law is being passed for transgender and transsexual protections that include public accommodations and give that speech? Would you? Ask Monica Roberts, Toni D’Orsay, Monica Helms and all of the other transgender leadership if they would want you speaking for the transgender community. They won’t be able to answer yes. Why? Because unlike you, they refuse to acknowledge this stuff. Why? Because society would tell you to go fuck yourself.


Dana Lane Taylor

Be sure to visit  TS/IS Liberation

42 Responses to “Joelle Ruby Ryan – Proud Of Fetish In Transgender”

  1. Marlene Says:

    Joelle’s a personal friend of mine, spending six good years together through thick and thin while she was at Bowling Green State University getting her PhD in American Culture Studies.

    She’s a damn good advocate and Third Wave feminist activist. She’s no fool and she’s no idiot.

    • Suzan Says:

      And? If she is such a good feminist one would think she would see the contradiction in loving people who mock women and engage in a misogynistic hate campaign directed at women.
      Being a woman is about being an adult female either assigned at birth or surgically reassigned female at a later date.

  2. no. Says:

    Odd to see maligned degradation masked as academic critique. You’ve accomplished nothing here by attacking someone who has devoted her life to the pursuit of human rights (yes – human rights, contrary to your ardent and misinformed pursuit of separatism at the personal cost of your own movement)

    Honestly, it’s sad to see my community turn on itself in such a vicious manner. If you want to discuss ideas and contribute to the discourse, fine. But you, Dana Lane Taylor, have done nothing more in my mind than embarrassed yourself and undermined your own ideas. If you want to be taken seriously, don’t go posting pseudo-intellectual petty bullshit online. You’re not helping your cause, and you’re most certainly not helping yourself.

    • Suzan Says:

      I am not nor have I ever been part of the Transgender Community> There is no “our” in my relationship with the Transgender Borg Cult.

  3. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    Suzan, all feminists fully support men mocking women by wearing dresses. Good grief, get with the program. See, they have devised a genius technique. Liberate women by supporting men who jerk off in panties and that translates into women’s rights. Good grief, it isn’t rocket surgery.

  4. Max Vincent Says:

    Speaking as a Trans individual with no allegiance to any particular organization, I think you, Dana Lane Taylor, are an idiot. What have YOU done for the Trans movement lately? I have been in the community for years, know many learned and educated folk, and this is the first time your name has EVER come up in any of my readings. I think you’re jealous of someone who has their finger on the pulse of what is truly happening in the Trans community and you just can’t stand it. I think you could take a few lessons from Joelle and learn what it is she does with advocating for the T community and find out that she is appreciated for all of her hard work and efforts to educate. Sounds like you are just full of sour grapes. P.S/ Using twice, and dwelling on the term “jerking off in women’s panties”, just lets folks know that you really have nothing of importance to say–you just keep tossing out phrases designed to titilate, but they sadly falls flat.

  5. Jamie Says:

    Okay, I have some serious reservations with this post. Here are just a few:

    “Are YOU a woman who was born transsexual or are you just a full time crossdresser?”
    So women born transsexual have a valid identity, but cross-dressers are less than? Cross-dressers are JUST cross-dressers? cross-dresser is a term that a woman born transsexual can use as a slur against someone else to imply they are lesser than?

    “It seems the TeeGee zoo only cares about the rights of men who like to wear women’s clothing.”
    “Joelle’s outlook on men who target women as a fetish.”
    I’ve heard denigrating statements like this before. They were made an awful lot by our conservative legislators in New Hampshire who opposed the “bathroom bill” (a.k.a. our trans non-discrimination bill) because they didn’t like giving rights to men in dresses who target women as a fetish. It’s disheartening to see a woman born transsexual using the same remarks against other trans identified people.

    “Earth to Joelle. I am going to pimp slap you, fool!”
    “Are YOU a woman who was born transsexual or are you just a full time crossdresser?”
    “Go read this piece of crap yourselves if you want.”
    “Because society would tell you to go fuck yourself. Hugs”
    So it’s not enough that society already tells trans identified people, including women born transsexual, on a daily, hourly, minutely basis to go fuck ourselves, you have to devote an entire post to taking up the bull horn and amplifying that message toward another trans identified person because she has a different perspective than you? You question Joelle’s effectiveness in working toward “transgender and transsexual protections” in this very same post. Could you please xplain to me the strategy of success for trans rights into which this tactic falls? Can you outline for me how infighting like this and being a messenger for cis privilege in reminding another trans identified person that society wants her to go fuck herself advances trans rights? I may be missing something, but it seems this post only advances the status quo, which as you so aptly stated wants us to go fuck ourselves. Could you have instead used this post to pick up that bull horn and instead of amplifying the “go fuck yourself” message toward another trans identified person turned around and said, “No society, YOU go fuck YOURself,” or rather more constructively said, “Hey, no one here needs to go fuck their self, and why not lets all just stop trying to judge the validity and worthiness of how others self-identify and treat each other with respect?”

    If you re-read Joelle’s post, that last message was the sense I got from it, not that she was just trying to defend some less-than group of “men jerking off in women’s panties” subordinated by women born transsexual.

    • Suzan Says:

      Identity without action is wankery. I wasn’t transsexual because of identity. I was transsexual because I was born with transsexualism. I had a sex change operation.. It cured me of transsexualism. I haven’t felt the desire to ever change my sex again.

      I am a woman because I am an adult person with a vagina. Not an adult person who embraces an identity while hiding a penis, no matter how well they hide it.

      Actually cross dressers have a fully valid identity as cross dressers/transvestites. Transgender people have a valid identity ad transgender people but they are really into denial and colonizing other people’s identities. I say this this because it seems like transgenders spend all their time claiming to really be transsexual except they want to avoid the expensive and sometimes painful sex change operation part.

      As for the “Transgender Community” I was never part of it although I was a pioneer in the transsexual community. The two are not the same.

      We learned to recognize the frauds who claimed to really be transsexual but who never got SRS way back in 1972.

    • Suzan Says:

      By The Way Dana got the “Pimp slap” phrase from Monica Roberts who regularly uses it to sound tough and from the streets.

  6. Jamie Says:

    And Suzan, the transsexual experience is only valid if it is followed through the entire WPATH recommended process including sex reassignment surgery? And that doesn’t play into patriarchal definitions of women’s identities how?

    • Suzan Says:

      Getting a sex change operation is the tautological definition of transsexual. If you live as a member of the sex not associated with your present genitals and aren’t at least working as hard as you can to get SRS then you are transgender, not transsexual.

      I don’t play games with trolls so I’m going to turn the question around.

      Why are you ashamed of being transgender and feel the need to claim you are transsexual instead of being proud to be transgender?

  7. Jamie Says:

    “I say this this because it seems like transgenders spend all their time claiming to really be transsexual except they want to avoid the expensive and sometimes painful sex change operation part.”

    What about those who aren’t as fortunate to be middle class or more financially endowed well enough to afford the validity as a transsexual that you could afford? They don’t get to claim womanhood like you because of their economic status? What about women born transsexual who medically can’t get the surgery because it would otherwise endanger their health or life? They don’t get to claim womanhood like you because of medical status or disability? What about women born transsexual who don’t feel the need to buy into male-defined validation of womanhood? Who gets to be the gatekeeper on who gets a vagina and who doesn’t, and why? Who makes the rules that say: “You have to have a vagina to be a real woman?”

    • Suzan Says:

      I am working class. I got my sex change operation in 1972. I worked two jobs a total of 60 hours a week at two dollars an hour, and did sex work on the side. I also borrowed money and was still paying it off five years later.

      Women have vaginas not penises. Even masculine women who are cops or in the military.

      I don’t play a bunch of post-modern transgender word games. I grew up in the country and know that the difference between boys and girls is between the legs.

      As for all these people who can’t get their surgery even though some of the better known ones run their asses all over the country, something I was never able to afford to do. How come they aren’t showing their Transgender Pride? Why are they claiming to be something other than transgender? Are they ashamed of being transgender?

  8. Jamie Says:

    “Why are you ashamed of being transgender and feel the need to claim you are transsexual instead of being proud to be transgender?”

    Why are you making assumptions about my identity and my level of shame about it?

  9. Jamie Says:

    But who gave you the moral authority to be the gatekeeper of the transsexual experience? Who gave you the right to say to someone they aren’t really transsexual, they’re transgender? How is that gatekeeper mentality any different than the gatekeeper mentality that drives some cisgender/cissexual people to say regardless of surgery or not that women born transsexual aren’t really women? I’m not trolling or playing post-modern word games. I think there are some truly valid concerns underlying some of the assumptions, statements, and mindsets going on here and I think we all need to be asking these questions to dig deeper.

    “Women have vaginas not penises.”
    “I grew up in the country and know that the difference between boys and girls is between the legs.”
    So where do intersex people fit into this definition of sex and gender?

    • Suzan Says:

      Transgender Borg word games alert. I don’t play Transgender Borg word games. I find them too androcentric.

      I am a feminist and not will to see woman turned from a synonym for adult female into a a synonym for feminine.

      If you don’t get SRS then you aren’t transsexual. If you live as a member of the sex not associated with your current genitalia and aren’t actively pursuing SRS then you are transgender.

      Why should an actual transgender person be ashamed of being transgender? Why do they feel they should colonize the lives of those of us who had SRS? Isn’t that a really dickish thing to do?

  10. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    Max…I’m rubber you’re glue. 🙂

    But seriously…jealous? Really…

    The transgender community is it’s worst enemy. I think it is pretty safe to say that society, as a whole, don’t want some guy who has a fetish about femininity to be in the bathroom or showers with their young daughters.Most of the transgender leadership stays away from acknowledging people with fetishes are in the transgender umbrella. Transgender came along to destigmatize fetish cross-dressing and to attempt erasure of transsexuals. And now, there is really no such things as crossdressers or transvestites…now they are “transgender women”.


    What is transgender? (a work in progress)

  11. Dana Lane Taylor Says:


    “So women born transsexual have a valid identity, but cross-dressers are less than?”

    Transsexuals need things that crossdressing men don’t need. We are diagnosed with a medical condition and need medical treatment. We have nothing in common with men who wear skirts. I have a hard time comprehending crossdressing. To me, it is just bizarre when they go from just dressing to creating a new and separate identity which includes a made up name. They get so far into the pink fog they actually think they are women when they are in that state and they are NOT women. They are men with testosterone, fully functional penises and all the male privilege that goes along with it. As Suzan stated, they mock women. As a feminist I can’t support that lifestyle choice but I can support protecting them from being fired from their job or kicked out of their homes because of that lifestyle.

  12. Andrea B. Says:

    Alice Dreger will think christmas has come early.

    Alice Dreger will have a field day with the comments that Joelle Ruby Ryan made at

    Up to this article I had a fairly OK opinion of Joelle Ruby Ryan.

    If someone was designing an article to piss off feminists at the expense of transsexuals, Ryan’s article would be a good basis for that type of article.

    As for the fetish comments. They are nonsense based, gibberish.

    I have never understood people from North America who either sexualise everything or claim to reject sexualisation in a puritan rage and then impose sexualisation on everything around them.

    Some people have sex, some people don’t. No big deal. I personally hope they enjoy themselves.

    Transsexual people are just as diverse as any group in society, whether they be religious, political, completely detached from society or whatever. Some people have sex, some people have fetishes and quite a few wish they actually had a sex life.

    Male to female Transsexual people tend to be less sexually active than other groups in society and tend to have lower sex drives, both pre and post surgery, contrary to the beliefs of Blanchard, Bailey, religious people and transgender activists.

    Some transsexual people are very sexually liberated and some are literally puritan in their outlook towards sex. Most transsexual people don’t seem to care to much about sex and a lot do consider sex to be over rated, unlike the religious and transvestites who are completely obsessed with finding something sexual in everything.

    A minority of transsexual people engage in fetishism. Most likely that minority is the same percentage as those people who are not transsexual in society, who engage in fetishism. No big deal and most likely harmless enjoyment between consenting adults.

    Transvestism is a completely different situation. People can deny it, admit it or argue about it. It does not matter. Transvestism is primarily a fetish based activity.

    Parties hosted by transvestites are primarily sexual affairs. Transvestism is used as an excuse by a lot of heterosexual transvestites to engage in sex with men, when dressed so called en-femme.

    Transvestism is what Blanchard and Co talk about and then impose onto transsexual people to sexualise transsexual people as a method of dehumanisation.

    The sexualisation of transsexual people is a way to dehumanise transsexual people in the eyes of the general public. Without that constant dehumanisation, psychiatrists, psychologists, sociologists and lawyers would make less money from transsexual people and lose overall control of transsexual people.

    Lost of control over transsexual people by psychiatrists, psychologists, sociologists and lawyers could potentially stop or reverse the drain of wealth from transsexual people to psychiatrists, psychologists, sociologists and lawyers. That control over transsexual people by psychiatrists, psychologists, sociologists and lawyers is a parallel situation to the control that bankers have over the ordinary working class in the USA, although significantly more amplified and specifically targeted, in the case of transsexual people.

    The sexualisation is a tool to marginalise a minority. To reduce that minority to a sexual object and then to utilise for a purpose, usually sexual. The power that psychiatrists have over transsexual people can in some cases be close to absolute, which can lead to absolute corruption of the patient-clinical relationship by the clinician. We have all heard of psychiatrists demanding sexual services from transsexual people, although thankfully that appears to be declining due to the recent reductions in power that psychiatrists have over transsexual people.

    That sexualisation process is actually a sub-function of the political drive of Transgenderism since its inception.

    @ Marlene

    Maybe you can explain what the hell was going through Joelle Ryans head when she wrote that blog article.

    Maybe you can explain to her that the difference between a transsexual and a transvestite is sex reasignment surgery.

    @ Max Vincent

    Joelle is referring to people who wank themselves of while wearing the panties of people of the opposite sex.

    Masturbating while wearing the clothes of the opposite sex is nothing do do with transsexualism. It is a sexual act.

    You are an idiot.

    @ Jamie

    The majority of the people on the entire planet who have had sex reasignment surgery are working class, by far. Europe, USA, Canada and Austrailia make up about 20% of the people on the entire planet. Over the years I have met many people from various countries such as Brazil, Argentina, China, Thailand, Malaysia, Korea, India, Chile, South Africa, Egypt, Jordan, etc who have had sex reasignment surgery. The majority of them paid for there surgery through saving while wokring on jobs, such as making clothes, serving in shops, etc, not prostitution as western TG activists and psychiatrists like to claim. If someone in the third world can work in a crap job and save enough for a local surgery to sort herself out, you living in the west can. If you can get a loan to buy a car, you can get a loan to get sex reasignment surgery as sex reasignment surgery is cheaper than a car these days, in Thailand, Brazil, India and Argentina. Just book a flight and stop whining and whinging.

    I met a TS in Dublin five years ago, who saved up for six years in her third world home country, while working in Mac Donalds for her sex reasignment surgery. If she can do it, there is no excuse for anyone in the USA. As for Europe, the majority of Europeans can get SRS on social healthcare, although waiting lists can be long, yet I hear the same excuses from European TGs who are really transvestites, colonising transsexual lives.

    Intersex is nothing to do with transgender. Intersex does not fit into transgender and the majority of intersex people are really pissed of at transvestites colonising intersex lives.

    As for all the identity nonsense.

    I don’t need a category or anything else to belong to. I do not need to be defined, deliniated, categorised or made into a subunit.

    I know exactly who I am.

    My identification is ME.

  13. catkisser Says:

    Jamie, no one gave anyone “moral authority”. What we are talking about is pushing back at Orwellian newspeak. Female has an actual meaning linked to genitalia. Transsexual has an actual medical meaning too. What some of us are doing is calling out the wholesale attempts to erase that meaning. People born transsexed are driven by their neurology to correct their bodies to the maximum amount possible, it’s really that simply. Eventually they will move heaven and earth to do so.

    And let’s be totally blunt here. Calling a female bodied woman who lives a woman’s life a “transgender” is not just an insult, it is hate speech. What it says is she can never actually be a woman, it says she is forever defined by a medical condition that was cured. So what difference is there when this shit comes from some religious nutcase, one of the five or so insane Radfems (most of them are not) and some crossdressing fetishistic man? Here’s a hint, there is none.

  14. Marlene Says:

    Suzan — You’re taking the privilege you have in being able to afford surgery because you live in San Francisco.

    What about those of us who live in rural areas, Suzan? I have two places who can help, but they’re hours away, Suzan! I’ve been unemployed or underemployed for years, dear. How the hell can I afford hormones, let alone trying to save for surgery?

    It’s this classist “You aren’t transsexual unless you have surgery” bullshit that hurts the trans community more than anything else. I *am* transsexual and have known it since I was before *nine years old*, Suzan! Those of us living in the so-called “flyover country” have very few opportunities to transition fully due to the isolation we suffer from, let alone the fact there are little job protections you on the coasts take for granted!

    Let’s also not forget that medical services aren’t able to handle transfolk to a large extent. Remember Robert Eads, the FtM who died of cervical cancer because no oncologist in Georgia would touch him until it was too late?

    We’re ALL in this together, Suzan… this elitist bullsiht’s *got* to stop! I’m as much a transsexual as *you* are, dear. If I had the money, hell yes I’d be on the first flight to Montreal or to SF to see Marcy Bowers. But I won’t and never will have, so all I can do is work with what I can afford, and continue to lecture to as many college classes as I can afford to travel to.

    • Suzan Says:

      Marlene… Suzan — You’re taking the privilege you have in being able to afford surgery because you live in San Francisco.

      Oh wow I so love the arrogant androcentric Transgender Borg Spiel.

      FYI I grew up in mining and mill town in the most impoverished county in New York State. I made it to the Haight in 1967 with a few hundred dollars in my pocket and a very nice guitar from money I earned working in a paper mill, where I was subjected to both abuse and a very dangerous environment. I live in a the equivalent of a Black Bloc commune.

      Let me get this straight. You haven’t transitioned, much less had SRS because you live in “fly-over” country… So you are a “virtual transsexual” immersed in a fantasy role playing game where one only has to claim an identity without actually completing any physical actions. That’s just freaking great. No wonder the Transgender Borg Talking Points are all so Transvestite Men’s Rights Advocates sounding.

  15. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    Marlene, Suzan isn’t transsexual.

  16. Sharon Sinéad Gaughan Says:

    Jamie, your questions have been asked and answered many times. I find it disingenuous that a transgender will critique women of history but resent a call for your own self-examination.

    Distortion of practical money and health circumstances is a standard way for transgender activists to deflect attention away from central contentions. There is nothing wrong with being pre-op, even for a very extended period. I was one of those people: the combination of life-threatening health circumstances and the consequent financial impact kept be back.

    I am grateful to have come through it fully corrected, but never once did I believe that “pre-op” and so-called “non-op” mean the same thing. In fact, understanding the difference is essential for those who were born with transsexualism and pursue the cure.

    I care about those who are pre-op and work toward their relief. Disseminating anti-scientific nonsense can kill.

    You act as though using the money and health excuse closes the argument when it is a lie from most who use it. In reality, using such rhetoric opens a different argument: “Are you serious?”

  17. Sharon Sinéad Gaughan Says:

    Marlene. Surgery does make a transsexual, never did, and no one here has made any claim otherwise.

    Your bogus accusation of our belief in that comes straight out of the transgender playbook, as does the elitism charge.

  18. Andrea B. Says:

    @ Marlene

    You are whining about nothing.

    When Suzy had her surgery in the 70’s there was no help towards cost. Compared to her salary at the time, it would actually be more expensive than today in real terms.

    As for living in the middle of nowhere. I went through the process in Northern Ireland. If I could go though it in a hell hole like Northern Ireland, it will be a walk in the park for you in the USA.

    Stop making excuses.

    You either get yourself sex reasignment surgery or you don’t. Stop making excuses and giving reasons not to.

    If you have a car sell it and get on a flight to Thailand or India and get cheap surgery if you have little money.

    Those clinics accept credit cards, paid a month or so in advance of the surgery date.

  19. catkisser Says:

    Gee, here’s a thought………save the money you are traveling around on to tell college audiences what a wonderful woman with a dick you are and then get surgery. Suzan is not a transsexual, I am not a transsexual, we are women born with a medical condition that was cured and for what it is worth, both from rural and poverty level histories.

    No one is buying the too poor crap, especially those of us who are poor and found a way.

  20. Marlene Says:

    Cat — I don’t “travel around” as you say. They’re strictly within a 30 mile radius, tops. It’s not like I’m flying hither an yon.

    Dana — Sorry to burst your fantasy, darling, but you are *still* transsexual, as is Suzan, and everyone else who’s had surgery. Trying to deny the fact just makes you a tool of the men who were the gateways back in the 1960s and 70s. That and it also in my opinion puts you in the “ex-gay” camp as well.

    • Suzan Says:

      Marlene… I know the Transgender Borg Collective religion has it down that one is always a transsexual no matter how many years post-SRS one is. That isone of the ways the MRA transvestites exploit people in a manner I find very androcentric and dickish.

      I was transsexual because I had transsexualism in the same way a person with diabetes is diabetic. I had an operation cured me of transsexualism. The proof of the cure is that after having had Sex Reassignment Surgery all desires to change my sex vanished.

      Forty years later and I still have no need to change my sex. So I guess the correction of my birth defect worked.

  21. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    Marlene, I AM transsexual. Would you be offended if I called you Mr. Marlene? After you intentionally stole Suzan’s status and labeled her transsexual?

    • Suzan Says:

      Dana do not engage in the mis-gendering routine here. It is a double edged sword and you get cut when you use it. It also comes off drag bar cat fight.

  22. Andrea B. Says:

    @ Marlene

    Suzy is a woman, plain and simple.

    She had transsexualism. A surgeon cured that in a couple of hours on an operating table.

    Your transgenderist arguement that a person can never change sex, is twisted sick and downright evil. The fact that you are repeating a mantra by Charles Lowell as a derogatory attack on people of transsexual history, lets everyone here know exactly what sort of mindset you have.

    Your need to impose your political ideology onto others without there consent lets us all know what sort of patriachial idiot you are.

    The only tool of the gatekeepers here is you.

    You are determined to impose your transgenderist ideology invented by fetishistic men for fetishistic men onto women who were born transsexual against there will.

  23. catkisser Says:

    Marlene, or whatever your real name is…
    I had my tonsils and appendix removed, does that make me a tonsil? Transsexual is not an identity, it is a neurological pre-natal birth condition. It has a cure that is 99.9% effective for those born with the condition, a cure. Why is that so hard for transvestites like yourself to process?

  24. tinagrrl Says:

    With all the crap about anti-WBT lesbians, and anti-Transgender lesbians flying about, why doesn’t anyone see that using the “transgender-as-umbrella” concept plays directly into the hands of both the anti-trans-anything-right-wing (religious or not), and the small “you are not a woman, you are transgender” segment of both the lesbian and gay communities?

    Both the groups mentioned want to make us ALL some sort of neuter. They want to deny us ALL any and all civil rights.

    Of course, that will not really affect the “virtual transgenders”, who walk among us as natal men or women. Nor will it affect the transvestites who just manage to hide their “obsession”.

    You know the type — the guy who is all oggly-googly while “en femme”, but the very picture of a “rugged guy” at work on Monday.

    Folks like that walk through the world untouched, while they castigate everyone else through their COMPUTERS.

    If the right-wing-types get their way — those “virtual soldiers of transgender”, and most crossdressers will walk away while actual transgenders, drag queens, transsexuals, and post-transsexual men and women WILL suffer.

    Why “transgender leaders” want post-transsexuals to actually LOSE rights hard won is totally beyond me. Why some “transgender leaders” think TRANSSEXUALS who seek and obtain surgery are “genital surgery essentialists” is also beyond me. According to the definition of transsexual, that’s what we do. Transition is just that — a period of transition, of transing, between SEXES — gender is something else entirely.

    Perhaps the “transgender leaders” should embrace THEIR status as transgender, and stop trying to co-opt, colonize, and change the definitio9n of transsexual so that THEY fit in, and are no longer transgender.

  25. Marlene Says:

    You hit the nail on the head, Tina!

    Your scenario regarding the religious reicht is spot on. If you read their rantings, they’ve always claimed that genetics is destiny. They’ve always claimed that surgery and hormones don’t make us women and men, because our genetics say otherwise. If we’re XY, where “castrated men” according to them, no matter how many years someone’s post-op. It’s the reason they claim that we should either be banned from marrying, or be forced to be in a “same-sex” marriage even if the person’s attracted to the opposite sex.

    It’s time we stop this interscene warfare and get working together — not only to fight the perverted forces of the religious reicht and the teabaggers who threaten what little rights we *do have, but also to fight for our rights in the statehouse as well as Congress as *guaranteed* by the Constitution!

    • Suzan Says:

      Who is this “we” of whom you speak? Doest thou have a mouse in thine pocket?

      Why should post-transsexual women work with transvestites, even if they call themselves the “Transgender Community”? Especially when our relationship with the followers of the Gospel according to the Prince of many names leaves us feeling dirty, fucked over, exploited and abused?

      I don’t have to associate with the fringe who have self-titled as Lesbian-Separatists who abuse me with the mutilated man spiel, nor am I expected to associate with the Taliban followers of imaginary desert sky gods who tell me I am a mutilated man. Yet I am expected to ally with misogynistic transvestites who are part of the Transgender Borg Cult and who abuse me using the same language as those lesbian separatists and religious fanatics use.

      This sounds like reactionary Men’s Rights Advocates bullshit.

  26. tinagrrl Says:

    There are transgender folk, transsexual folks, and post-transsexual folks. Transsexual is a phase you pass through on your way to changing SEX. Transgender folks see themselves as changing GENDER, either on a part time, or full time basis.

    These are two very different things.

    Why transgender folks are not willing to accept the label they made (or borrowed) for themselves is beyond me. At the very same time, why they DEMAND that transsexual and post-transsexual women be a part of the very “umbrella” they appear to be trying to get away from is also beyond me.

    These are two very different things — transSEXUAL and transGENDER. Not in any way the same.

    I’m so sick of all this crap that I only comment on this blog about these matters. Wherever I go I’m usually attacked — banned by Sandeen, attacked by the “Classic-Transsexual” and “HBS” crowd when I made comments on TS-SI — and totally incapable of reading any of the rot on some “super-duper-anti-trans-lesbian-sites”.

    By the way, I am a woman. My surgery is in MY past. It has nothing to do with anyone, or anything, else. To DEMAND I join your cult (ANY cult) violates my rights as a person.

    As “transgender leaders”, why not marshall your troops, fight for YOUR rights, INVITE other (like transsexual and post-transsexual) folks to join you on a voluntary basis — the way folks did during the civil rights fights of the past.

    The current DEMANDS from so many in the transgender community are very similar to demands made by strong willed MEN, who are accustomed to having their way — especially with women.

    It might just be that old habits die hard, or, it might be something for TG leaders to look at.

    In any case, always remember — transsexual and post transsexual folks are VERY strong willed. We have usually gone through some tough times — we will not be intimidated.

  27. catkisser Says:

    Marlene or whatever…..Suzan said it. 90% of the you will never be real because of genetics, mutilated crotch, inverted penis, once male always male shit I have had hurled at me came from transvestites like you, not the radfems, not the religious right which by the way used to be pretty much down with medical transsexualism until you umbrella asshats came along.

    Ally with you? You are the enemy in my book.

  28. tinagrrl Says:

    By the way, the anti-trans lesbian folks do not demand everyone join their group. Neither the “HBS”, nor the “Classic Transsexual” groups demand every post-transsexual person be a part of their group (in fact, they revel in telling you YOU are NOT a valid part of THEIR form of purity). The rabid-right-wing-religious-right also just want to dictate rules for EVERYONE — they do not WANT you as a part of their group.

    Only our poor, picked upon, discriminated against TRANSGENDER folks DEMAND, INSIST, REQUIRE, all trans-anything (now, before, or future) folks to be a part of THEIR “Cult”. THEY REQUIRE IT OF YOU — no matter what you say.

    If you are post-transsexual, and refuse their advances — they call you names, tell you you have a “frankenpussy”, an “inverted penis”, a “genital surgery essentialist”, a “mutilated man”, etc., etc., etc.

    This is quite similar to the way some men treat women who decline their advances.

    Why the demands? Why co-opt? Why?

  29. Teagan Says:

    Jamie Says:
    09/02/2011 at 11:23 PM
    And Suzan, the transsexual experience is only valid if it is followed through the entire WPATH recommended process including sex reassignment surgery? And that doesn’t play into patriarchal definitions of women’s identities how?

    Loving the unintentional irony there, Jamie. Loving it. Much of the transgender movement consists of men and their attempts to re-define womanhood. You speak of “patriarchal definitions of women’s identities?” Look no further than the TG Borg.

  30. Sharon Sinéad Gaughan Says:

    Once again, the Borg Squad gets it backwards. Jamie rests an argument on the rickety case of WPATH.

    People Born Transsexual long preceded development of the original SOC, much less the current TG-deferential WPATH process.

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