Transgender Lesbian

Listening to people caught up in the Transgender Borg Collective makes my head hurt.

It is like listening to either the anti-sex branch of “radical feminism” or some of the Christo-Fascist right wing.

Every time I hear it I feel like I am listening to the iPhone app. version of the gospel according to gender variant Arnold Lowman aka. Virginia Prince.

The heterosexual transvestite always manages to shine through all the psychobabble bullshit about gender and identity.

Today on a thread on Bilerico, someone who shall remain anonymous, to avoid making my using this quote into a battle of personalities and to avoid my turning this person into a target of scorn and invective posted the following quote:

I received a full GID Diagnosis in 2008, began hormone therapy, and received my Gender Realignment Surgery in January, 2011 after clearing two more psychologists’ recommendations. I identify as transgender because I think it’s a more appropriate term to define who I am. I do not like using the word transsexual to describe myself because I do not like the implication of sexuality that it implies. I’m happy to identify as a transgender lesbian.

I’m currently reading, They Say You’re Crazy: How The World’s Most Powerful Psychiatrists Decide Who’s Normal by Paula J. Caplan.  If one ever wishes to study  the creation of a fictitious DSM category I would suggest they study the purely political creation of the pathology called GID.

That one grew out of Prince’s conversations with Stoller and his haunting of so much of the early literature.  Along with a the right wing Christo-fascist cult of Rekers, McHugh, Raymond, Daly etc.

So needless to say I am not impressed when someone treates their “GID” diagnosis as something to be proud of.

I never had GID because GID hadn’t been invented yet when I went through the process.  Hell they were barely starting work on the Prince based idea of Gender Dysphoria.

I’m always amazed when someone who had a sex change operation has to find weasel words to deny what the operation actually did.

What the fuck is “Gender Realignment Surgery”?  It sounds like taking apart a wrecked car and putting the frame in a realignment gig to rebuild it.

Gender is bullshit.  It is just a way of oppressing women while side-stepping all the 1970s critiques of sex role oppression.

Oooh gender, a plastic fantastic concept for people unwilling to be honest.

Oh I don’t like transsexual because it sounds like sex and that is nasty.  I like gender instead because it sounds so pure and virginal and Barbie like.  Where as sex sounds like I might actually have a cunt, now and passions.  Lust, that I can finally express.

What the fuck is a “Transgender Lesbian”?  Is that a bull-dyke?  Or is it a Boi?

Lesbians are women who love other women.  End of freaking story.

Haven’t you ever heard of “Woman Identified”?  It means putting women and the interests of women first.  If feminism is the theory lesbianism is the practice.  How can you be woman identified if you put being transidentifed first?

And to think people actually wonder why I don’t want to be active in the Transgender Borg Collective…


32 Responses to “Transgender Lesbian”

  1. Geena Says:

    A “Transgender Lesbian” is someone afraid to admit they once looked at a penis and wondered what it would taste like.

    • Suzan Says:

      Actually I think “transgender lesbians” are more likely people who were heterosexual transvestites and in many ways still are.

      So many of them were married and have never even tried having sex with a man.

      But there is one other thing that is missing and that is something I discovered I shared with many other lesbians and that is a coming to realize one was lesbian rather than straight. I had a long term relationship with a man I loved and wondered about the feelings I felt towards women.

  2. tinagrrl Says:

    LESBIANS are WOMEN who LOVE other WOMEN!

    There is no such thing as a “transgender lesbian”. Perhaps the word being searched for is MAN, BOI, or (in some cases) Dyke.

    If you had “gender realignment surgery” — what did it consist of? Was it anything like sex REASSIGNMENT surgery — you know, when they change an “outie” into an “innie”, when they build the CUNT you always thought you should have been born with.

    Why are some folks so frightened by what THEY actually DID? Why must they sugar coat the reality? Are they frightened by the fact they are now WOMEN, and will be treated like WOMEN by the rest of the world? Does the potential loss of the male privilege they had while also having “gender identity disorder” (TM applied for) frighten them that much? Must they retain some measure of control of their WIVES? Is that it?

    Two pre-ops together is either Kai-Kai or two gay guys. A pre-op and a post-op is het sex, and two post-ops equals two lesbians.

    It’s really that simple, if you want to be clinical about it.

    Suzan mentioned WOMAN IDENTIFIED. What a novel idea!! Actually putting WOMEN (ALL WOMEN) FIRST! Actually growing into BEING the actual, real, (as opposed to virtual), woman you KNOW you should have always been.

    Do not think “transition” ends with SRS — it continues as long as you live.

  3. HenryHall Says:

    You ask “What the teapot is “Gender Realignment Surgery”?

    It is an uneducated back-formation from GRS which is properly Genital Reconstruction Surgery.

    SRS and GRS are two aspects of the same thing. SRS focuses on the legal effects. GRS focuses on the medical technique.

    • Suzan Says:

      Bullshit, Henry.

      Genital reconstruction surgery is the sort of surgery a man gets when he has had his penis shot off or blown off from a mine. The very concept of reconstruction in real world language as opposed to Transgender Borg Collective speak is to restore to a former condition. It is the exact opposite of what sex change or sex reassignment surgery does.

      I am actually opposed to change of birth certificates without sex change surgery.

      Further I am tired of the Transgender Borg word games.

  4. teresagalaxy77 Says:

    I posted this essay link on my Facebook and I came under fire by half a dozen transgender women in the last hour who have characterized me as a bigot, bitter and twisted and “the same as Ashley Love”! And even one from a “personal friend of Virginia Prince”! You can say all kinds of nasty bad things about me– but when you compare me to Ashley Love– YOU’VE GONE TOO FAR! or are you the same person as Monica Roberts?

    • Suzan Says:

      Teresa, thanks for posting the link.

      I had some one say that those of us rejecting the Transgender Borg Collective were like Men’s Rights Advocates.

      These people are just as fucked up and nasty as Prince, their godhead.

  5. Andrea B. Says:

    The book They Say You’re Crazy: How The World’s Most Powerful Psychiatrists Decide Who’s Normal by Paula J. Caplan is a very interesting read. It is also quite scary when you realise just how fucked up all the shrinks are for following this lunacy.

    Regarding renaming SRS.

    This is done constnatly by activists trying to confuse the issue. There lack of education really shows when they use the term gender instead of sex. I really wish these people would goto an adult education course and learn english.

    Gender is in the brain and sex is between the legs. Unless a lot of people are actually having neurosurgery, they are using the wrong term. It is sex reasignment surgery as it is surgery on the sex between your legs.

  6. Carol Robson Says:

    As far as I’m concerned my true transition started after my surgery. I was interviewed the night before my surgery (Discovery Health Channel UK) and I was asked how I felt about my surgery. I replied that the following days surgery did not make me a woman, ‘I was a woman’ all the surgery did was to correct something, natures flaw, it made me right, complete, whole, whatever terminology one wants to use. WOMAN IDENTIFIED has been mentioned I recently attended a local feminist network meeting and they wrote that the group was for SELF-IDENTIFIED WOMEN.

  7. Kerry Samantha Kerridge Says:

    OMG people that think the same as me at last i thought everyone had been brainwashed by the transvestites

  8. Kerry Samantha Kerridge Says:

    My gender has never been altered but my prick has been removed and i have a nice if a little old now vagina 🙂 to the delight of my gf who had her op a week today

  9. angela richards Says:

    why cant you just be a woman, i am . i’m not trans this or trans that. i am a woman. just live the life and nobody bothers you. it’s when you start shouting from the roof tops that you are different , that people notice that YOU are different.. get on with life !

  10. Dranemra Says:

    Transgender Lesbian: MtF who loves women, seeks female companionship or who has sex with women.
    In my case I have a genetic female wife who still loves me and cares for me and we’ve stayed together. Not all of us seek relationships in the trans comunity Tina, I don’t need another transwoman to make myself whole. I’ve never had interest in men. Not all MtFs are gay guys some of us are born lesbians in mind and seek to reach that point in body as well.

    • Suzan Says:

      I do not like the heterosexual transgender homophobia that says, “We are and always have been lesbians but those who liked men before and after are gay guys.”

      I know the Transgender Borg Collective Bible according to the Prince of many names thinks transsexuals are actually gay men and that the only reason to get SRS is so we can be properly heterosexual, but hat is just the self hating homophobia of a tired closet case.

  11. HenryHall Says:

    Andrea – SRS is called Sex Reassignment Surgery because it is any one of the types of surgery that will facilitate (in most jurisdictions) a REASSIGNMENT of legal sex. That is to say a legal sex is assigned at birth, it is reassigned pursuant to petitioning the court with evidence of surgery (not any old surgery but surgery which qualifies – which is SRS by definition). SRS is a legal term, not a medical term. SRS can include mastectomy in the FTM case in most jurisdictions..

    Suzan – if you don’t understand that genital reconstruction can include penectomy with vaginoplasty then think of GRS as Genital Repurposing Surgery as a good aide memoire. In any case the G in GRS stands for Genital, not Gender (the idea that it stands for Gender is a solecism that arises out of a back-formed illiteracy). GRS is a medical term, not a legal term. GRS does not include mastectomy nor Breast Enhancement.

    • Suzan Says:

      Henry the legal reassignment of which you speak is a total fiction based on the misogynistic idea of gender being a substitute for sex.
      Sorry Henry I don’t play fucking Transgender Borg Word Games.
      It is a Sex Change Operation aka Sex Reassignment Surgery. It changes one from male to female or female to male.

      I do not play post-modern bullshit word games either.

  12. tinagrrl Says:

    Dear Dranemra, why “transgender lesbian”? Why not lesbian? Why must you add the word transgender, especially if you were “born lesbian in mind”?

    Why the assumptions? — “Not all of us seek relationships in the trans comunity Tina, I don’t need another transwoman to make myself whole. I’ve never had interest in men. Not all MtFs are gay guys some of us are born lesbians in mind and seek to reach that point in body as well.”

    How do you make statements like the above without knowing ANYTHING about the people you are dealing with? I find, “I don’t need another transwoman to make myself whole.” a position that I’ve met before in the “transgender community”. It’s almost as if some folks MUST set up a hierarchy of sorts:

    MTF with MTF = bad!
    MTF with woman = only O.K. if you are TG
    MTF with man = almost as bad as with MTF, but if you were heterosexual before and “switched” it can be O.K. – IF you follow the party line.
    MTF still with wife = best

    Being 72, never having had an interest in guys, having been married twice (unsuccessfully), I did as much as I could to AVOID transition. It was when I finally “hit bottom”, when another, of a multitude, of relationships failed that I FINALLY decided I was the only constant in that equation.

    I NEVER liked men, simply because THEY were the “authors” of much of my pain. Being “teased” mercilessly as a child is something that never really left me. I always liked women. I always liked the company of women.

    At the same time I did go out with men during transition — it was being fair to myself. After all, what if my fear of, and distaste for men had colored my response to them? What if I actually PREFERRED them?

    I didn’t. Just like some cities, they were a decent place to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there.

    As I have settled into my life, as my experience has grown, my disdain for men has grown. So clueless, so either unaware, or unwilling to look at their privilege. The “Patriarchy” is real. It is supported by liberals, conservatives, progressives, fascists, etc. It is taken for granted – by both men and women – to the point those who rail against it are seen as fools, insane, harridans, and whatever other names MEN give to WOMEN who actually think for themselves.

    The entire “Gender”, “Transgender”, etc., thing is an extension of Patriarchy. It’s not really “transgressive” — it actually solidifies the concept of “gender roles”. It tells non-men they are not, nor can they ever be “women” — they are “transgender”, and that has been decided by MEN — who once again DEFINE “WOMAN”.

    How sad is that?

    Also, just as another point — why would ANYONE “need” another person to “make them complete”? What were you thinking?

  13. HenryHall Says:

    Suzan – you don’t seem to grasp the difference between change and reassign.
    Change is about the way things are. Assign and reassign are about the ways we keep records that claim to show how things are.

    The difference is crucial, not mere wordplay as you call it.

    • Suzan Says:

      Henry what you are unable to grasp is that I think your argument is a bad con job and a pile of bullshit that I not only do not buy but seriously oppose.

      Now slither on back to the mother-ship and report your failure at assimilating me into the Transgender Borg Collective.

  14. Leo Says:

    Why are you so upset with how someone chooses to identify? If someone considers themselves a trangender lesbian, that’s their identity. I’m sure they didn’t mean to hurt or attack you with their statement. They were probably trying to find the right words to share their life experience in the way that felt right to them, just as you do, just as we all do. Their identity is not attacking or erasing your identity. You’re hurting yourself by being judgmental, and hurting others who are looking for acceptance and read this instead.

    • Suzan Says:

      As far as I am concerned the term “transgender lesbian” is confusing at best. One interpretation would be an assigned female at birth lesbian who identifies as bi-gender, two-spirit, “boi” or some other sort of post-modern construct.

      On the other hand I’ve had affairs with several “transgender lesbians”. In bed we were heterosexuals.

      Over the last few hours two such “male lesbians” have had their identities revealed and I am not amused by their antics.

      I note your skillful playing of the victim card.

      As a working class transkid I learned the truth to a phrase my first lover, a Marine Corp deserter had learned in ‘Nam.. “Suck it up, it don’t mean nothing.”

      I guess we really were far more courageous back in the 1960s before all the Transgender Borg Collective bullshit.

  15. tinagrrl Says:

    “Transgender Lesbians” tell me my relationship is inappropriate. They tell me how THEY, whether pre, post, or non-op, have ALWAYS been “lesbians” though male. Now as they move toward being women physically, they become “transgender”.

    In addition, they tell me I am also transgender, that I am part of some mythic “umbrella” they invented, and decided to put me under — this though I am just another old woman, just a woman living and still growing in this world.

    This need on their part to include me – even though I have declined their invitation – seems a bit presumptuous.

    Especially if post-op, why insist on “transgender”? Aren’t they WOMEN? Or, does “transgender lesbian” help them retain some measure of former privilege? Does it soften the blow for their wives, who thought they had married men? If that’s the case, why not look at that? Why not do some real soul searching? Why insist their specific needs are, in some strange way, “universal”.

    Perhaps there is still that need to be “special”. Does being “just” another woman disappoint them? If so, why include others in their little game? Does it make them more important?

    Or, is it just another “internet game”?

  16. Leo Says:

    Suzan – I’m sure you are very courageous, but you are also very angry. Why? Why do other people’s identities upset you so much?

    tinagrrl – I don’t think someone else identifying as a transgender lesbian says anything at all about your relationship. One person’s view on the world doesn’t have to challenge yours.

    If you don’t identify as transgender, then you’re not. If someone else identifies as transgender then they are, regardless of operations. Different identities can coexist without one being right or wrong.

    I don’t think anyone can tell you that you are transgender if you don’t identify that way. That’s hurtful. I imagine it does happen and that sucks, I would never say that to you. You don’t have to be under any umbrella. You’re a woman, end of story.

    But in the same way, it’s hurtful to say someone isn’t transgender if they DO identify that way. However someone identifies – that’s how they are. They have the same right as you do to self-identify and have their identity respected.

  17. Andrea B. Says:

    @ Henry,

    You obviously do not understand the english language.

    You will find that adult education lessons in english are available in every medium to large sized city. Most small towns have them as well.

    At those you will learn that sex is between your legs and gender is a reference to what is constructed inside your head.

    As for your ideas about transsexual people. I suggest you get some therapy for your bigotry.

  18. Alexander Says:

    Suzan- You said, “I am actually opposed to change of birth certificates without sex change surgery.’

    What qualifies, then, for transmen, considering our options are pretty abysmal.

    • Suzan Says:

      Gee I’m not an expert on all things transsexual or transgender.

      Loren Cameron’s photography seem to suggest some pretty good results

      Birth certificates are different from other documents, particularly when it comes to the right to marry. Post-SRS transsexual people are having enough problems with that one at present. Get back to me on the birth certificate once we have marriage equality in “all” of the states.

      My feelings might well be different at that point.

      • Suzan Says:

        Hysterectomy would definitely be part of any requirement. Pulling the pregnant man routine would be an automatic disqualification no matter how big a publicity junkie you are.

  19. Alexander Says:

    Funny. I didn’t bring up the birth certificate issue- I was merely responding to your comment about it.

    And, no, genital surgery options are not “pretty good” if you want something that functions and looks even remotely like male genitalia. The quality of surgical outcomes for transmen are not even slightly on par with the outcomes for transwomen.

    Since you suggest hysterectomy for transmen, I wonder if you also oppose transwomen storing sperm to produce children later?

  20. Andrea B. Says:

    @ Alexander,

    SRS for FTM people is not great, but it was not great back in the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and 80’s either for MTF people. Basically MTF had a hole dug, that looked nothing like a vagina.

    FTM people appear to be looking for the perfect penis. Up until recently MTF people did not get the perfect vagina and in reality still do not. A large proportion of us are sexually dead in that area post surgery. We can not give birth through it.

    FTM people need to grow up and realise they are not going to get a perfect fully functional penis, just as MTF people did not up until recently. There is far to much mysogny around the penis debate amongst FTM people. I have known FTM people who had phalloplasty, so am fully informed as to the nonsense that does the rounds in FTM circles. I know full well the scare tactics used by people opposed to phalloplasty surgery to talk FTM’s out of getting surgery. I have seen FTM’s being rejected by other so-called FTM’s post SRS for getting phalloplasty.

    FTM’s can get something resembling a penis, just as MTF people got something for decades resembling a vagina of sorts.

    The only place a perfect penis occurs is in photoshopped porn magazines and in the minds of Blanchard, Bailey, Lawrence and Cantor.

    Pre-operative I believe a person should have there drivers license, passport, tax documents, health documents, etc changed to reflect the new sex so as to reduce difficulties as much as possible during the real life test, but I do not agree with changing a birth certificate until SRS is performed on a MTF or at minimum hysterectomy on a FTM. I don’t agree with anyone who is MTF getting a new birth certificate pre-op, or a FTM getting a new birth certificate pre-hysterectomy.

    As for sperm and eggs being preserved, I have a different opinion from Suzy. I personally believe that if a transsexual person wants to store eggs or sperm, then there should be no barrier to them doing so. I think all transsexual people should be informed they have that option and leave it up to them to decide what is right for themselves. I personally would not have been interested in the option, if I had known about it.

    Regarding marriage. I want to see all TS people having the right to marry once issued with there new birth certificate. However I also fully support gender neutral marriage laws. I want to see the law changed so that two adults who are fully capable of giving consent without coercion, can get married regardless of there sex.

  21. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    “Now slither on back to the mother-ship and report your failure at assimilating me into the Transgender Borg Collective.”

    My new favorite quote.

  22. LeeAlani Says:

    This all gives me a headache! OK, let’s see . . . I’m not transgender, but have no issues with those who are transgender. I was transsexual, but due to the miracle of modern medicine, I was able to correct that problem, so now I’m just simply a female, with a transsexual history. As for the SRS vs GRS nomenclature, well, SRS has only one definition (sex reassignment surgery), but GRS seems to have many meanings. Interestingly, on Dr. Bowers’ website, she uses SRS and GRS, but the latter is defined as genital reassignment surgery, which I think is reasonable, as my brain has always been female, and it was my physical body that needed to be brought into alignment with my brain. But I do agree that when one says SRS, most people know what is meant. As for being able to change all of one’s legal documents sex without surgery, well, I don’t know what to think. I understand things like driver’s license & passport, but birth certificate, which is considered one’s legal sex? Hmmmm, during my transition I know that it was very important to me to have appropriate ID to travel, shop, obtain bloodwork, etc. To be quite frank, though, I personally wouldn’t have considered using a public locker room or to have an intimate relationship with someone during this stage of my life. Although it was absolutely true that my brain was female, and HRT was making my body appear quite female, a penis is a male sexual organ, and I didn’t want to be in any situation where someone might see it. I needed it gone, not for others, but so I could be whole. So, someone who says they’re female, but likes keeping their penis, I guess I don’t understand, but it’s their life, not mine. I certainly couldn’t live that way. With all the talk about birth certificates here, and yes, now post-SRS mine is female, I wonder what will happen if things change such that one can retain a penis but change their birth certificate? I’d guess that some have, and if no one, other than their doctor or significant other sees their penis, definitely no issue. But, what if someone using a locker room decides that since they’re legally female, it’s ok to be publicly naked? Would the other women be required to accept seeing a penis in their locker room? Will a transgender with all of the proper legal ID push this issue someday? If so, will there be a backlash regarding legal sex designation? Will business simply build individual dressing areas? Women are typically much more modest in public changing rooms than men, so maybe this situation will never happen.

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