The Transphobia of Self-Loathing Transgender People

I’ve gotten tired of being abused and called names by members of the Transgender Borg Cult.

I still support issues like a trans-inclusive ENDA, Marriage Equality, and inclusive Hate Crimes law,s mainly because I know the Transgender Inc and Transgender Borg Cult do not speak for all transgender people, but are more representative of a bunch of heterosexual cross dressing  abusive men.

Too bad I already gave out the award for the coining of a new abusive term for post-transsexual women.  The phrase, “Genitalia Surgery Essentialists”

That means “anti-trans trans people” misses out.

Now I know what the person, who hurled this insult meant, and who it was directed at, but, if a phrase ever merited unpacking and deconstructing for analysis, it is this one.

Obviously it was directed at post-SRS women (in all this most F to M folks are sacred and immune to the abuse by the Transgender Borg Collective), particularly those who have the audacity to say “We are not ‘transgender’, stop labeling us as being transgender.”

Because being post-SRS and wanting to be just an ordinary woman is heresy according to the dictum of the Transgender Borg Cult.

There is however one group that seems immune to all these abusive labels and I am not talking about our, ever useful to the Transgender Borg cult, F to M brothers.

No there is another completely different set of transgender people who think it is of much higher status to claim you are transsexual, albeit “non-op” or “no-op”, rather than transgender.  These folks come off as “status seekers” sort of the way we have to put up with transsexual people who aren’t really transsexual, in spite of changing their assigned at birth sex in middle age, but are rather “intersex”.

Both groups come off as rather sad.  I sort of want to tell both to take up the Serenity Prayer, even if you are an Atheist and accept yourself for what you are rather than seeking to improve your status by claiming membership in another nearly equally despised and discriminated against group.

Learn to deal with it.  I’ve watched too many people spend too many years claiming to be transsexual when they are actually transgender.

If the Transgender Borg Collective ever gave up that trying to attach a higher status to transsexual and just accepted transgender as an equally valid status then they could perhaps focus on their own internal issues.

Transsexual and transgender are not the same thing.  Each group has it’s own set of issues that are different issues.

Instead of pointing a finger at post-transsexual women and coming up with new and abusive phrases for us y’all might want to examine your own lives and ask why you can’t accept and love yourselves as transgender people instead of claiming you are something you are not.

Too often I hear transsexual wannabees with a ton of reasons why they can’t get surgery now or why they couldn’t do it when they were young.  Or the it’s too hard to get the money.

Yeah its hard, many of us were totally cut off from our families because we decided to do this.  (I last saw my birth family in October 1967).  Many of us have had to do things like sex work that we didn’t want to do in order to survive and to get surgery.

You dishonor those sacrifices and struggles by demanding to be considered the same as us without getting your sex reassignment surgery.

The transgender community would be a far more supportive place for many very needy people if the Transgender Borg Collective laid aside all the freaking word games and status seeking and focused on developing the self esteem and self acceptance of actual transgender people.

But that would be too easy and envy/jealousy are to tempting.  Word games and name calling is too exciting.

The real trans hating transgender people waste their energy coming up with new insults for post-transsexual women and nursing excuses as to why they too can’t get SRS.  At the same time many have enough money to buy home, cars and travel to conferences,  things I would have never given priority to over SRS.  Even though I did spend the money a couple of times to get friends out of a jam.

26 Responses to “The Transphobia of Self-Loathing Transgender People”

  1. Andrea Rosenfield Says:

    “Anti-Trans Trans People” sounds like “My girlfriend who keeps saying she’s not my girlfriend.”

  2. anne Says:

    Well said, suzan.

    Thank you.


  3. Carolyn Ann Says:

    You’re tired of people calling you names? And yet you refer to entire groups as the “Transgender Borg Collective” and “Transgender Inc”?

    Be the change you want to see: if you stop calling people names, perhaps they’ll stop calling you names!

    You might want to not be too judgmental about other people, too. Why they don’t follow your path in life is, to be perfectly blunt, none of your damn business. Their reasons are their reasons – who are you to criticize them for having different priorities to you? If you’re judgmental about others, you have no real reason to be too surprised or upset when others are judgmental of you.

  4. tinagrrl Says:

    That folks don’t follow the same path is perfectly fine. I have no problem with that.

    Heck, very few people follow my path..

    BUT (there’s that word again) why is it O.K. for folks Suzan calls “The Transgender Borg Collective” to call names, to ridicule, and dismiss just about EVERYTHING WBT’s/Women of Transsexual Experience/post-ops SAY or even REQUEST?

    Why is the request folks use “Transgender AND Transsexual”
    such a difficult thing to do?

    Why does EVERY comment that says, “There is NO ‘hierarchy’. It’s just that transgender and transsexual are DIFFERENT.”, call for a personal attack, or being banned from making further comments?

    Why do so many “transgender activists” insist on leveling personal attacks against anyone who merely says things like, “How would you know SRS is not truly life changing when you choose not to go through with it?”?

    Why are TG folks as ready to use the “inverted penis” attack as the religious right?

    Why must TG leaders insist on some mythic “transgender umbrella” that insists we are all the same, are all, now and forever transgender, and members of some “community” when it is clear to almost anyone we are MANY communities?

    I do not understand why it is so necessary to co-opt other groups, TELL them who THEY “really” are, while, at the very same time both diminishing and ridiculing them.

    How does that further ANYONE’S civil rights?

  5. Joann Prinzivalli Says:

    Suzan, while I think you’re mostly whacking at a straw man, every once in a while I amreminded that there are, indeed, a few non-TS TG people who actually do disparage people who identify as transsexual and have had GRS. Some of those people are rooted in the mental health professional thinking circa 1965, the year that a New York City blue ribbon medical commission decided that transsexual people are delusional members of their original sex for whom any medical or surgical treatment is merely palliative.

    Some of them are gender deconstructionists (this camp seems to be rooted in some gender-fluid and genderqueer circles).

    There are still those out there who ignore the more recent scientific studies – and they’re on both sides of the separatist divide, as well as being camped in the Neo-Con, Christianist and Tea Party movements. It’s not the inclusionists who disparage transsexual people who have surgery, it’s the separatists on the other side.

    In my encounters with all sorts of separatists, I realize that separatism has a lot of similarities to religious fundamentalism – the accentuation of differences is the primary issue, rather than focusing on the commonalities.

    The lesbian feminist separatists have their root beliefs about transsexual women based on the philosophical writings of Mary Daly and Janice Raymond, women who brought a Roman Catholic birth-genital essentialist viewpoint into feminism, fueled by the 1965 medical thinking and even Catholic doctrine.

    The spiritual heirs of Virginia Prince also seem to fall into the same place, even if they would also likely be classified as “delusional” by that medical commission in 1965.

    The gender deconstructionist folks who are in the anti-TS camp see GRS as unnecessary, and perhaps also share in the thinking of TS women as delusional for wven wanting GRS.

    Inclusionists do not disparage those who identify as transsexual, even if we do include transsexual as a subset of the classification of transgender, based on a single commonality.

    My thinking is that if we’re going to make distinctions, the classification of transsexual is broader than what TS separatists would like to include – the distinction is between cross-gender (based on birth assignment) and bi-gender (the latter being classed into two groups – the gender-fluid/genderqueer group and the alternating-presentation types who have an occasional need to express their “inner-opposite-sex-persona” while still having an “inner-original-sex-persona”). Outside this version of the umbrella would lie the “fetishist” and “drag-for-fun-and-profit” types who don’t have any gender variation from their birth assignment.

    I don’t have a problem with either “transsexual” or “transgender” when used to refer to myself. It all depends on the context. I suspect that the genetic, embryological and developmental differences that mark transsexualism as a phenomenon are wider-ranging than the separatists on either side are likely to find comfortable, particularly if further studies show that those with bigender identities have a common genetic and biological predisposition with those whose identities are cross-gender. Clearly a lot more study is needed before conclusions can be made from a scientific POV – though I pretty much suspect that the phenomena are closely related.

    • Suzan Says:

      Why yes Joann you are right Charles Prince was seriously involved in constructing the pathologizing of transsexuals. He is the one who originally pushed the idea we were delusional transvestites who wen too far.

      Fuck the Catholic church. There is no god.

      Raymond’s research came from concepts put forth by Prince. Check her bibliography.

      Joann don’t insult me or others who are regularly subjected to abuse by the Transgender Borg Collective by telling us we are just imagining this abuse. That is an abusers game that is as old as the patriarchy.

      We are not separatists because we were only part of the Transgender Borg Collective due to the Borg dictum “We are transgender Borg, you will be assimilated”

      Fuck the separatist slur and put the elitist slur there too.

  6. Carolyn Ann Says:

    Dealing with your points as best I can:

    — BUT (there’s that word again) why is it O.K. for folks Suzan calls “The Transgender Borg Collective” to call names, to ridicule, and dismiss just about EVERYTHING WBT’s/Women of Transsexual Experience/post-ops SAY or even REQUEST?

    I never said it was okay to ridicule any woman, transsexual or otherwise. Suzan generalizes and lumps all transgendered individuals into one or two intentionally insulting labels.

    I don’t know if your claim is true or not. Can you point to some evidence that what you say is true? Also, I can’t and won’t speak for others.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right; but in searching for the high moral ground, Suzan is doing double-timing her way in the opposite direction.

    — Why is the request folks use “Transgender AND Transsexual”
    such a difficult thing to do?

    You have to persuade people that they are different. Merely insisting on the difference is never going to be sufficient. I know they’re different; I don’t see how anyone can’t perceive the difference, but they don’t.

    Is the onus upon you, or them? I’d say it’s on you; you’re the one insisting upon a certain usage. You have to make the case for that usage. (And, as you probably know, you have to make the case over and over and over. Eventually it either sticks or gets refuted.)

    — Why does EVERY comment that says, “There is NO ‘hierarchy’. It’s just that transgender and transsexual are DIFFERENT.”, call for a personal attack, or being banned from making further comments?

    I don’t know. Why does Suzan and a few other individuals feel the need to castigate an entire population for the misgivings, mistakes and misapprehensions of a few?

    Personally, I don’t ban people from commenting on my blog. Others have different standards. C’est la vie. If someone wants to end a conversation that’s not going their way, that’s their prerogative. It communicates quite a lot, none of it flattering, about that person, but it’s their blog, their decision. Doesn’t make it morally correct, it merely communicates that the banning individual can’t handle anything more than “happy happy”, and probably not even that.

    By the way, there is no hierarchy. Only the arrogant elitist insists there is. We all have our own experiences. If you want someone to respect yours, you have to respect theirs. Racing for the bottom of a pissing contest isn’t going to communicate that you respect their life, their decisions, their quandaries. Sometimes you just have to maintain the higher moral ground. Suzan doesn’t; she double times to the lowest rung she can find.

    — Why do so many “transgender activists” insist on leveling personal attacks against anyone who merely says things like, “How would you know SRS is not truly life changing when you choose not to go through with it?”?

    Insecurity? Idiocy? A total lack of thought? I don’t speak for “transgender activists”, I speak for myself. I have no idea why some people do that, although I know they do.

    Only a dimwit would say the whole gender reassignment process isn’t life-changing. Unfortunately, there are a lot of dimwitted people out there.

    — Why are TG folks as ready to use the “inverted penis” attack as the religious right?

    I don’t know that one. I assume it’s as stupid as it sounds?

    — Why must TG leaders insist on some mythic “transgender umbrella” that insists we are all the same, are all, now and forever transgender, and members of some “community” when it is clear to almost anyone we are MANY communities?

    People like containers.

    Personally, I have no idea who these mysterious TG leaders are. I’ve often read about them, but I’ve never come across one.

    Also, I’ve never read a convincing argument that the transsexual woman is not transgendered. I’m not arguing that transsexual women are transgendered, either. I suspect it’s a “shades of grey” argument; and there’s nothing wrong with that. Life is full of shades of grey and we all seem to cope. I will note that making an argument is not the same as having the argument accepted; it’s often the case that some opinions can’t support themselves no matter how passionately they are held.

    Aside of that, I’d need to see specific examples, and, again, I can’t, won’t, speak for others.

    — I do not understand why it is so necessary to co-opt other groups, TELL them who THEY “really” are, while, at the very same time both diminishing and ridiculing them.

    I’d argue that this is precisely what Suzan is doing. It’s what Teagan did when she said “the crossdressers”. Ashley Love just did it in an “open letter” to Marie Claire. Okay, I don’t think they co-opted the despised groups, but they sure as heck dictated identity.

    “Transgender Inc”, “Transgender Borg Collective” and other insults of that ilk are also (deliberately) diminishing and are intended to ridicule. As I said, sprinting for the bottom of a pissing contest isn’t usually a good way to win friends and influence people.

    What does change behavior and thinking is criticizing specific instances. A catch-all “look what the (sneer) transgender borg collective is up to now” is, unarguably, worse than the behavior being complained about!

    If you write a blog, or publish something, you can expect to be criticized for your words. Whether the criticism is fair or not isn’t a concern; that it will happen is. I criticize Suzan; I have no fear of being criticized in return. What I don’t do is criticize the “transsexual mafia”. I’ll fess up; in a moment of unthinking idiocy, I did, once. I was called out on my words; I apologized. Criticizing people and ideas is one thing; criticizing groups in sweeping, generalized terms is not okay.

    — How does that further ANYONE’S civil rights?

    You changed the subject; I don’t know what you’re asking. How does Suzan’s childish name-calling or Ashley Love’s silly assertion that transgender is a sociopolitical term advance anyone’s rights? They don’t. What does advance rights is a concerted effort to make compelling case for equality.

  7. catkisser Says:

    And in typical transvestite fashion, when you visit Carolyn Ann, the pure and meek’s website “she” has two separate entries calling Suzan names after the lecture here.

    Maybe their bullshit is so engrained they don’t even realize it?

    • Carolyn Ann Says:

      I’m quite offended, catkisser! You should know that I am never a “they”! 🙂

      Let me see… Suzan calls an entire group names and insults them in quite a bigoted fashion. I respond, not in-kind, but with some pointed criticisms. And yes, I do label Suzan with some awful labels. That’s not name-calling; that’s argument, quite personal argument.

      Personally, I don’t give two hoots if you think my ideas are bullshit. You’re definitely full of it if you classify me as one of those yucky “transvestites” some, around here, are so fond of denigrating. Know what I mean, catkisser? 🙂

      By the way: I love the depersonalization. It’s so, oh what is the word I’m looking for? of you. Have a nice day. 🙂

      • Suzan Says:

        While I support extending a Transgender inclusive ENDA to actual 24/7 transgender folks I don’t support extending it to transvestites who I definitely do not want in the women’s restrooms.

        • Carolyn Ann Says:

          So you’re basically for discriminating against one class of person?

          You’re in favor of having a guard at each bathroom, ready to demand proof that someone satisfies some arbitrary criteria, defined by you, in order to pee?

          And you’re in favor of denying legal protection to those who might not wear a dress each and every day?


          What gives you the right to determine what standard of dress is being acceptable? What gives you the right to determine how I should live my life? I don’t tell you how to live yours, but you feel perfectly able to tell me how to live mine? Why is that?

          I’d say “let me tell you about myself”, but you’ll either not be interested, disparage what I have to say or simply count me as part of your all-encompassing “transgender borg collective”.

          So tell me: what’s the difference between your “transgender borg collective” and “all Jews are money-grubbers”? What is the difference?

          • Suzan Says:

            Spew on Carolyn… Make my case.

            I’ve read your blog personal profile and it says you are a heterosexual married man who rides motorcycles.

            Why should women feel comfortable with you in the restroom?

            • Carolyn Ann Says:

              Okay, you’re going to have to explain that retort to me.

              Where did I say I go into the Ladies? The simple fact is: I don’t. Even when I’m wearing a dress! 🙂

              Yes, I’m heterosexual. I’m married. Twenty odd years at this point. I ride motorcycles. Love ’em, actually. How does that reflect on my appearance?

              Do you actually know what I look like? Or are you extrapolating from a few words in a blog profile? And why should my looks be a guide? I know a transsexual lass who really looks like a bloke, and she’s had plastic surgery! I guess she’s not quite up to your high standards?

              You still haven’t answer my questions, by the way. 🙂

              • Suzan Says:

                Why should I? You’re the dickwad coming here and making demands of me on my blog, I’m not going to your blog. You are a man. I do not owe you the time of day. Remember I’m an evil separatist. Well you want to see separatist, you’ve come to the right place because I have experience. I was a lesbian separatist who avoided speaking to penis people as much as possible for several months.

                You do not get to demand answers, responses or kindness from me.

                Buh bye…

  8. Andrea Rosenfield Says:

    When you’re taking flak, you’re near the target, SuzyQ…

    I love “Genitalia Surgery Essentialist.” It moves the subject from “Genitalia” to “Surgery.”

    Those who have had this “Surgery,” and those who genuinely need it, are doing so for the “Genitalia” outcome it produces. The “Surgery” is just a means to that end. It doesn’t make them who they are, it just satisfies an essential-to-them prerequisite for being able to grow into who they eventually will be. That’s one frame of reference.

    Placing the focus on the “Surgery” process, rather than the “Genitalia” result, reveals a different frame of reference, not a life-arc of accumulated change over time, but rather akin to that of a collector of individual experiences, each isolated from each other. This mindset can only form around a current state that does not yet know the “result” state, for it does not account for the result or any change it may bring over time. It assumes itself static and unchanging, for it completely discounts the “grow into” part of the transition process. In fact, it must deny that people grow and change over time, and hide any evidence that they do, in order to maintain the integrity of its static frame of reference.

    To fit all this information into three words, I agree, that is award-worthy.

  9. Willow Arune Says:

    It matters not the religion, politics or minority group, the ones to watch in each are the fundamentalists – those who know the answers to all questions and attack anyone who does not agree.

    We know of them in religion. But they exist as the never changing extreme elements of all political movements and hang out on the fringes of any minority group. They are the pure, the untainted, the self-appointed prosecutors, judges and juries wrapped into one. They know what is right and are quick to class all but total agreement as heresy. And heretics are to be attacked without mercy. This is the group in any group who never negotiate, never discuss, never look for common ground.

    There are fundamentalists in the transgender group (I hate using the world “community” when none truly exists). These come in various types, but whichever type you come in contact with, it is `my way or the highway`. There are fundamentalist transsexuals, such as the HBS group most noted for the antics of one JU in SF. What these types have in common, aside from knowing the answers, is a sense that “the end justifies the means”. Lies, innuendo, attacks of all sorts on the person with other ideas (never the ideas that oppose, but always the person of the one holding those ideas) are the fundamentalist`s tools of his (or her) trade. Anything goes. Making up tales is only part of the toolbox.

    One classic approach is to dig into the opponent’s life, looking for any dirt that comes to hand. Take that, add more than a pinch of sensational claims (mostly untrue) and set it out in the world. The bigger the lie or distortion the better to discredit the person holding another view. And in discrediting the person, all the ideas held by that person – to the untrained and uncritical – must be as bad as the person that holds them.

    Behind such tactics are the fundamentalists of any concept. In politics, think Karl Rove. I have noted over the years that in TS or TG circles, there is a variant which I might call the Serial Fundamentalist. We know transition itself is a time of change. In TS circles, we see those who start off as Transgender fundamentalists (in a variety of forms and beliefs) who then become `more than a transvestite, less than a transsexual“ and morph further to a `true transsexual` while also claiming status as `only a woman“ (done concurrently as a rule). At each stage, the methodology and tactics remain the same. Amazingly, there is often no pause as the true answers are changed. This tells me that it is the personality, not the ideas, that we have to be concerned about…

    I now travel in a very limited way in transsexual circles. I live in a remote location where GLBT affairs are small enough that self interest demands cooperation. There is simply peace in our valley. We have enough dealing with the so-called normal community not to worry about such divisions as we face a common foe. Transvestite, transsexual, trans-whatever (species) go into a common pot with Gays, lesbians, and whatevers Differences and small distinctions are left behind, rather like small communities where pastors, priests, rabbis and imans get together to form a common `spiritual` front. Sure, some find it hard to bury big city differences, but eventually most join the common cause or they get very lonely.

    As for myself, I have always found that one learns more from those that hold views different from my own. A discussion with such types lets me explore my own ideas and opinions more. And thus my shelves have personally inscribed books by Janice Raymond, Mike Bailey, Anne Lawrence, Colette Chiland, Bernince Hausmann and most `transsexual monsters`. From each I have learnt things that both strengthened my own opinions and caused me to question my bedrock beliefs. Few of these monsters are fundamentalists as common lore would have us believe. They are open to discussion, in some cases albeit only up to a point. The fundamentalists have no desire to discuss; they only wish to attack if an alternative idea is held.

  10. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    Mr. Ann,

    Do you know what the Borg is? The term “The Transgender Borg Collective” doesn’t mean you look like the borg…or smell like the borg..or whatever…it means you in the transgender community refuse to accept that some with a transsexual and/or intersex history reject being labeled as transgender. The borg wants to assimilate everyone into their collective. It is not a slur or a degrading name, it is more of a political description. At least that is the way I interpret it.

    • Suzan Says:

      Maybe we should start describing the Transgenders on line but men in real life as “Transvestite Avatars”.

  11. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    Suzan, that is funny as hell!

  12. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    Mr. Ann, instead of leaving his comment here, came to my blog and left one.

    Carolyn Ann said…

    Dana, or Ms Lane Taylor, if you prefer: your other site seems to discourage comments, so I figured, to be fair, that I would let you know I’ve written a response to one of your questions on Suzan’s blog.

    As you would know, having read the post, I am no longer welcome on Suzan’s blog. As such I can’t respond to your “Mr Ann” comment. I do assume you mean me, as no one else fulfills the name of “Mr Ann”? (By the way, I think you mean “Mr Grant”. Ann is my middle name.)

    Anyway, my response to you is here: You might find it interesting; you might not. Either way, I decided it was worth letting you know I’d responded. 🙂
    June 1, 2011 9:24 PM

    • Suzan Says:

      That is because he got plonked, blacklisted. Something that generally only happens if you spam the list with porn or something. I generally only put people on moderation or actually never remove them from the default moderation. But even unmoderated people get held in moderation if they post from a different computer or different IP address.

      I have the tight control because I get two dozen spams a day and this is how they get filtered out.

      After 10 days the comments automatically shut off.

  13. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    A cross-dressing man accused me of “Transsexual Bigotry”. I can only LoL at that.

  14. Teagan Says:

    Sigh, I see that Carolyn Ann is at it again. I’ve learned to simply ignore him when he comments in my blog… it took me a little while, but I finally learned. In his blog, he’s come after…

    Suzan, Cathryn, Dana, Anne,
    Cathryn again,
    Suzan again,
    me, Ariel, and Natasha,
    me again,
    me again,
    and me again.

    These attacks don’t bother me quite as much as his arms do. He complained in one of the 14 posts above that no one ever looked at his pictures, so I looked. Consider it taking one for the team.

  15. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    Teagan, I am not letting him bother me in the least. I think he is funny. He tags his articles with “Transsexual Bigotry” but spends all his times attacking those with transsexual histories. He may have a screw or two loose.

  16. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    He admits to being a crossdressing male and then gets upset that he is called the slur…male. How insane is that?

    He is 100% woman, 10% of the time. haha

    He is living in a fantasy world. He is a male and poses as a woman online. Does he expect us to seriously refer to him as a woman? Why should we? Cross-dressing has changed a lot since Al Gore invented the Interwebz. Before, a guy put a dress and lipstick on to play woman but now they just have to put an avatar up and give themselves a female name..and walla…alll woman!

    He can right as many blogs as he wants about me. I could care less, actually.

  17. Dana Lane Taylor Says:

    write..not right…coffee

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