The Strange Case of “True Transsexuals” who hate other Transsexual and Transgender People

Disclaimer: I have gotten seriously pissed off with some of the BS about gender and the insistence upon the erasure of transsexuals by the smothering inclusive “Transgender Umbrella”.

But until the last half dozen or so years I’ve counted transgender individuals among my circle of friends. Unfortunately I’ve outlived those whom I knew in 3D and now most of my Transgender friends are people I have met on-line.  Mainly on mailing lists and places like Facebook.

While I’ve argued with people, I actually like and respect some of those folks I have argued with.

I recognize the validity of economic arguments.  Hell I was lucky to get SRS when I did.  I caught the tail end of the 1960s prosperity coupled with cheap rent, and access to a loan that I might not have been able to get except for having someone willing to co-sign.

When I first came on-line some 15 years ago Alta Vista was the hot search engine and the alt. lists on Usenet were the place to be.

I encountered some really strange folks there and got in some very heated arguments.

It was there that I first encountered someone who considers herself to be “True/Classic Transsexual”  and can always be depended upon to trash TG folks,.  Only in those days she wasn’t so certain about herself.  Indeed.  Her self description was, “More than a transvestite and less than a transsexual.”

Guess what, I’m perfectly fine with that and I’m equally fine with her coming to a greater understanding of self and going on to get SRS.  There are as many ways to be trans as there are people who have to deal with conditions that have trans as a prefix.

I left the Usenet about a year or so after having first found my way there.  When I left people were engaging in a level of violence that was crossing over from the virtual world into 3D.

I was on a mailing list called “Trans-theory” ostensibly run by the rarely present Stephan Whittle. This list was subjected to a prolonged attack by a cabal that was using various tactic to defame and degrade women of a transsexual history by dividing us into androphiles and autogynephiles.  A pair of rather meaningless pathologies  that degraded both those who were defined as AP or AGP.

About this time I met Stephan Whittle at a conference in Burbank and had several extended conversations with him.  While he was more supportive of the Transgender Umbrella paradigm than I was he came off as sincere and sane.  Someone I could disagree with and not have it turn into a major war filled with personal slander. The cabal went after him with serious allegations and in a manner of ad hominem attacks that resulted in his abandoning the mailing list.

Members of this same cabal launched numerous attacks directed toward emotionally injuring me including personal threats.

As a result Tina and I founded the Women Born Transsexual Mailing list.

At its onset it seemed to attract people who would later leave to form the HBS/Classic Transsexual faction.

Over the course of some 8 years the list also attracted people who would go to great lengths not only to join the list as an individual but created sock puppets for the purpose of disrupting the list.

Not that the list needed much disruption as every post-SRS sister has her own firm opinions of what constitutes a “proper transsexual”.  Some of the issues that tore the list apart included those who thought lesbian sisters should support heterosexual sisters marriage rights and not fight for same sex marriage.

We were visited by Charlotte Goiar, who insisted we start using “Benjamin Syndrome” instead of transsexual.  I was skeptical and pointed out that while Transsexual was commonly abbreviated as TS, Benjamin Syndrome would be abbreviated as BS which in American slang stood for Bull Shit.

When I started this blog a couple of years ago all the usual trolls showed up.

Fortunately Andrea James who was kind enough to give my blog an initial push which really helped me get rolling had a bunch of information on a couple of the trolls as well as several people people notably Kiira Tirea who were part of the original cabal.

I wasn’t about to let my new blog become hostage to these people so I immediately slapped them on moderation.

As a result I have several people who devote an inordinate amount of time to trashing me for not wanting to be part of their “Classic Transsexual/HBS” club.

You see I’ve pretty well come to the conclusion that the vast majority of people do not get SRS on a lark or as part of some sort of thrill.  I also believe many who recant have fallen under the spell of some religious cult.

Others should have been excluded from SRS based on mental illness.

But most of us got SRS for the simple reason of having been born Transsexual.

We coped with having been born with transsexualism in a number of different ways.  Some of us were obvious as kids, others were not.  Some of us had sex with men, some with women before SRS.  Some of us had marriages in our assigned at birth sex and others had relationships that might have been heterogendered while being technically homosexual.

Some may have been asexual before and asexual after.  Some are more taken with adhering to a rigidly defined gender role than others.

Some people have way too much time on their hands and use it to trash others.

I’m giving a shout out to Elizabeth of the Blog,  Notes from the T side Like me, she has been around for many years.  We were even in Los Angeles at the same time in the 1970s although I don’t think our paths crossed.  We were also both patients of Dr. Benjamin.  From what I have read of her blog she seems like good people.  Coincidentally she is being attacked by some of the same people who came here and messed with my blog when I first started it.

Pay her a visit.  I’m going to give her a link on my Blog Roll.

9 Responses to “The Strange Case of “True Transsexuals” who hate other Transsexual and Transgender People”

  1. Sharon Gaughan Says:

    I have visited Elizabeth’s blog, “Notes from the T side”, many times, and am appalled by what is going on. She doesn’t deserve that.

    I left a note of support.

  2. Sharon Gaughan Says:

    I am on moderation?

    • Suzan Says:

      No. Sometimes things wind up being held because WordPress does not recognize the specific IP address.

  3. Angela Says:


    Syndromes. The best description of Syndromes I have come across is in Ursula Le Guin’s novel “Paradises Lost” which is in a collection of stories called “The Birthday of the World.” In it she describes ‘syndromes’ as a function of a long and difficult journey in unusual circumstances, and a certain lack of conscious memory.

  4. Erisis Says:

    Thank you for the insightful and historically informative blog post! I came to it via one of my twitter news feeds and I’m glad to have clicked the link to reach such a sane and balanced commentary on a topic that seems to tear our community apart.
    While I find that there are of course finer or larger distinctions across the spectrum of transgender/transsexual folks, I believe that generally speaking we have more in common than not. It is also my very firm belief as an activist for trans equal rights that the only way for us to win very badly needed rights and protections for ourselves is to work together to present as untied a front as possible. When we fight among ourselves, when we attack each other, the only people who win are those who would deny us our place as equal human beings in our great society.
    Thank you again for speaking up and keeping the discourse intelligent and enlightening.

    Lorelei Erisis

    Columnist, “Ask A TransWoman”

  5. Karen Says:


    When I first came on-line some 15 years ago Alta Vista was the hot search engine and the alt. lists on Usenet were the place to be.

    I encountered some really strange folks there and got in some very heated arguments.

    Who are you call strange! 😉 (for those that don’t know Suzan and i did have some arguments on Usenet back then)

    BTW the fallout from ASSRS lasted a long time… back about 5 years ago one of the nut cases from there tried to sue me and one other post-op who used to post there… it was essentially an attempt at using the legal system for extortion!

    The worst harm I’ve seen from arguments on-line that purposely was aimed at 3D lives to cause damage, have been inflicted on post-ops BY post-ops who had different views. I think it call comes from the insecurity and need for validation that being TS in this society can engender… that and some of the types of personalities it takes to get through all this in spite of.

    I do remember the cable from TT… Net warriors to the extreme and really hurt people’s feeling and raised their insecurities (which can be dangerous and make some suicidal), but AFIK they never directly went after individuals in 3D – just tried to control the net discourse to promote their views, not worrying about how they hurt people.

    They also attacked on transgen i heard (it was long after I left that ancient list!)

    Anyway in recent years i’ve not followed or been involved in internecine warfare … being 12+ years post-op (time does fly!!!) has given me enough perspective to realize it’s not worth it.

    – Karen

  6. Angela Says:

    This is a strange situation to hear about. I first used the internet about 15 years ago, but only because someone I knew was studying computer science at the university and took me there where I could log on using his password on ancient Sun microsystems UNIX workstations. I had no idea there were such things as discussion groups going on, and the person I knew was a Chinese student who was mostly interested in looking at pornography, which he said he couldn’t see in China.

    Later I became involved in a discussion group about depression, and then a few years after this porn. It made me so uncomfortable that I gave up the internet entirely for about 6 years.

    I have read a little of the blogs linked to here, but can’t go back and read 15 years worth of usenet and internet writing. Still, it is obvious that there have been some very nasty things going on. These ring a few bells about what is still going on.

    Firstly, Raymond/Blanchard et al. In other words controlling women by surrounding with an apparently fragmented set of illogical discourses of which the transgender agenda is a part. No one with a transexual history is a real (insert any sex here) because transexuality is not real in this view. But ‘trans woman,’ ‘tranny,’ ‘autogynephilic,’ ‘transvestite,’ ‘butch,’ are all real because they have been defined as so by authors like the ones above.

    So there are stories like transvestites and transexuals are the same but transvestites for whatever reason ‘choose not to become transexuals.’

    So perhaps these people are ‘true transexuals’? That is the ones who do choose to become transexuals, while the rest of us get on with day to day life as women who appear a bit different to most women. Having said that I’ve never met two women who are the same, but most don’t have, or want, a male sex drive.

    At the risk of being the lady who protests too much, or waffling, it infuriates me when a so called ‘trans woman’ tells a post-op friend of mine not to use that ‘horrible word’ transexual, and that it’s all about gender variance. And when local organisations set up ‘transgender’ groups while themselves being run by very butch women, some of whom could do with a shot of T in their backsides, but who don’t consider themselves transgender, or trans anything. It’s just that I’m supposed to go there, if I want company. And when my tutor at the university sees my feelings as being part of ‘the process.’ That is the transgender process of becoming a transexual.

  7. Andrea B Says:

    On this it is simple.

    In transition some of us BELIEVE we are more transsexual than others. The shrinks confirm that in sessions, to take the piss out of us and we fall for it.

    After surgery we beleive we are more transsexal than others and self confirm it to ourselves and shrinks also encourage that.

    Post transition the shrinks state they want to talk to a sucessful transition, which they tell to every TS they meet, with distinct hints of confirmation but not direct admition of biological reason for being TS and everyone else is nuts. They all fall for it as I did.

    We then tell everyone we are real and that everyone else is false.

    We continue that in real life and continue it out to the internet and real life, which causes undue amounts of misery.

    In plain language, the more TS than other TS people is a load of crap. We are just as normal as everyone else and as fucked up as everyone else. We are a wide spectrum of sane and insane living in a crazy world.

    If you look to be an exception to that, then you are a fuck up the shrinks can manipulate. It literally is as simple as that.

  8. Angela Says:

    Shrinks vary too in my experience. There are some, perhaps many who don’t like t people, and the UK Christian Medical Association has carefully worded statements on its website which more or less rehash religious ideas in the name of not encouraging the gays and the t people. I had a taste of this in the 1990’s, in 2 months on a psychiatric ward no one ever mentioned or tried to talk with me about sex and gender in spite of my obvious distress about it. I didn’t know what transexual was at that point. But there was a born again nurse who had a go at converting me. In the end she failed, but not before a lot of damage had been done.

    That said things may have improved a bit. I was at a local conference last week about lgbt mental health and someone said something which made me think. This was that third level, ie specialist, services can often be excellent, but that getting there can be awful. I think this applies across the board, to services such as forensics, eating disorders, mother and baby units, but most are not so much in the public eye.

    The treatment I had was a mixture of encouragement and challenge. I guess if you are paying for your treatment it might be a different story, and I think some people do come a cropper that way.

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