Libertarians are Republi-Nazis on Crack.
Too many people confuse libertarianism with anarchism. They are are not the same.
The freedom libertarians believew in is the freedom to own slaves, rape the environment and fuck over workers while paying them Mumbai levels of wages.
Under libertarianism the rich get to all be Hitler and the working people get______. Fucked is one word. To die working is another way of putting it since libertarians do not believe in Social Security, Medicare or organized labor labor. They do not believe employers should be required to provide any benefits or the 40 hour week.
For that matter the only government function they believe in is the military and police.
They are in short nearly the absolute worst choice of ideology around.
The only people who should ever consider voting for them are people who would otherwise vote Republican.
September 24, 2010 at 4:03 pm
Tell me about it, Suzan!
I was in a flame war with a Libertarian on another blog, who was claiming that the US would be better off without the government levying taxes to pay the police and firefighters, not to mention repairing the roads! He also claimed that we’d all be able to pay per use services with the more income we’d earn! He was complete and utter dumbass!
I asked him what about those who *have* no income? How could they pay a toll to use the streets or the sidewalks? How could they pay to have a theft case investigated or have a fire put out??
I also mentioned the fact that some Libertarians are SO naive, that they are dumb enough to believe that restaurants would follow safety and health regulations and police themselves!
I then asked him if he enjoyed watching the financial system nearly collapse and plunge the US into another depression thanks to Shrub removing nearly all of the regulators and watchdogs?
The dipshit didn’t have an answer for that!
September 24, 2010 at 11:22 pm
There are libertarians, and there are libertarians.
My own political philosophy is a sort of modified moderate libertarianism that is often mistaken for a more classic liberalism.
When I was in high school, I read Barry Goldwater’s The Conscience of a Conservative, and Alexis DeTocqueville’s Democracy in America (an abridged version of the latter) among other works, as part of an AP History Independent Stidy class. Add to that all the subtle things I picked up from avidly reading Robert Heinlein’s science fiction, and I was a natural for membership in Young Americans for Freedom, where I was a part of the libertarianwing (and not the more numerous neo-con wing).
In college, I read another book – one with lots of pictures, called “The Good Old Days – They Were Terrible” put ut by the Bettman Archive (before Bill Gates bought the collection). In familiarizing myself with the history, I came face to fave with the *reasons* for some of the government agencie I had previously criticized.
These days, my main problem with government agencies comes from when they lose sight of their mission and become bloated bureaucracies that either make things more difficult for the people they are supposed to serve, or worse, are controlled by the businesses they are supposed to regulate.
I still subscribe to the principle of TANSTAAFL (There ain’t no such theing as a “free” lunch) – but I also understand the principle of “with my taxes I buy civilization.”
The thumbnail sketch is that I support freedom, linked with responsibility. Example – Second Amendment. Yes, a “right to bear arms” – but with a purpose, “for a well-regulated militia.” Government can specify conditions to the bearing of arms that include specifying the kinds of arms that are permitted (to allow “well-regulated” things like interchangeable ammunition, etc.), and required military training and official militia registration and service.
Another example – freedom of religious expression – it comes with a responsibility – to respect the religious expression of others – and limits: one can believe in stoning gay people and wiccans to death, but one can’t constitutionally act on that belief. It also means that to the extent that marriage is a religious rite and not a civil right, those whose beliefs allow non-heterosexual marriage should have the right to express those beliefs.
(Polygamy actually requires more careful regulation and scrutiny, since there is a history of abuse and non-consensual situations in polygamist groups.)
Since we’re supposed to have equal opportunity under the law, certain laws and regulations that help insure a more level playing field for oppressed minorities is certainly justified.
If our most basic inalienable rights are life,liberty and pursuit of happiness, we should as a nation provide the minimum necessities for those who cannot provide them for themselves – food, shelter, education, and health care should all be a shared societal responsibility, just like roads and infrastructure.
Radical libertarians live in a fantasy world of “rugged individualism” – suitable for living on a mythical early American frontier, wtih voluntary assistance from neighbors against the threat of the original inhabitants, and while rubbing shoulders with Daniel Boone and Davey Crockett. Such a society would impossible in any reasonably-sized town or city in the Nation, and perhaps no longer even possible in more rural parts of Montana, even.
Pure communism does not work – Ayn Rand had that pegged – people do not willingly do what they can, in return for only what they “need.” (Rand was dead wrong about unfettered capitalism – the John Galts don’t exist (well, one can argue about Ben and Jerry, perhaps, as an example of a couple of good capitalists) – the robber barons did, and the rare individual who is like Ben and Jerry and actually has a conscience has a problem answering to a board of directors interested solely in expanding the quarterly bottom line at the expense of everything else.
Both organized labor and an actively involved government are necessary checks to each other and to the “owners of the means of production.” (And the worst of the “capitalists” are not giants of industry, but the leeches on Wall Street who manage to manufacture wealth out of nothing for themselves via “smart trading” while sapping it from every other source).
So I am a social liberal and an economic moderate. I don’t like programs and agencies that don’t work, but I recognize the need for something! While I am not comppletely against private enterprise providing public works and services, I believe that history shows that much “privatization” is a boondoggle to create wealth to the privateer at the expense of the taxpayers, or the prvateers require a government agency to watch them that could grow as large as a government agency that also provides the service. (One source of constant abuse – nursing homes!)
Anyway, I have meandered enough on the subject. As I started out, there are libertarians, and there are libertarians!
September 25, 2010 at 12:44 am
Ayn Rand was an illiterate hack. Too many good schlocky writers out there to be bother with some one as talentless as her.
Capitalism is a failure. Marx lives. I am more Keynesian New Deal than anything else.
I actually think Socialism is a far better system than capitalism when it comes to freedom of the individual. Libertarians only care about the freedom to exploit. And I always hated Goldwater.
September 25, 2010 at 4:11 am
At least Goldwater was able to adapt and learn, Suzan — he became a vehement opponent of Don’t Ask when one of his grandsons came out of the closet, and was slammed by the neocons for not goosestepping to their tune.
September 25, 2010 at 9:56 am
I never liked nor have I ever forgiven Goldwater. I don’t give a shit that he looked kinder and gentler in old age. That was only in comparison to the rest of the vile nest of vipers and Nazis that comprise the Republican Party.
September 25, 2010 at 10:11 am
The folks who happened to run our Government from 2000 to 2008 believed in “intended consequences” — bleeding agencies dry, by limiting their budgets, appointing incompetents, etc., etc., etc. Policies that destroyed both their image and their ability to perform the duties they were called to do.
This began with the “sainted Ronnie Raygun” — AKA: “The Worst President (next to Bush Jr. – “The Shrub”) Ever.
It’s no different from the policy of bleeding Social Security dry — then saying “it’s insolvent”.
Libertarians do not understand government, usually think “I did it all myself”, and do not credit their surroundings, their society, the institutions and infrastructure, for fostering, allowing, and supporting their “self-made” success.
As has been said before — “Libertarians are Republicans On Crack” — except that these days, Republicans are for the destruction of the USA. It seems they want to oversee it, blame it on others, then live in their walled communities, or move to some other country.
These days, being either a “Libertarian” or one of the current brand of “Republicans” means you hate the USA and the freedoms it had.