“It Ain’t Rocket Surgery!”*

Sometimes we need to apply Occam’s Razor and slash through the piles and piles of complexity.

The simple truth that many try to avoid is that transsexuals change their sex or at least as many of those physical characteristics that classify one as a member of one sex or the other as it is possible for them to change. Everything else is supposition.

There are some simple other basic realities.  One of which is that there is no certain, for sure, answer as to why people with transsexualism want to change their sex.  There is no carved in stone etiology although there are what appear to be common narratives that tend to fall in a couple of general categories.

In the struggle to find that carved in stone answer we tend to get into these huge sectarian fights over minutia that are really pretty meaningless in the overall scheme of things.

This often means we neglect to ask the really important questions.  Like:  Why does it really matter why we are transsexual or transgender? Why does it matter if one is lesbian, bisexual, straight or gay?  These are just forms of being that are common enough to be considered just something people are.

When male infants and small children adhere to the masculinity or female infants and small children adhere to the femininity we indoctrinate them to believe is vital to their being it is assumed that they are normal.  When these same children show a preference for things and behavior expected of the other sex we consider them abnormal.  In reality these different kids may be normal for what they were born.

Women born transsexual has had people try to use it as a separatist club.  It has had people make all sorts of claims about it but back when Tina and I coined it we meant it in part to be a simple statement of transsexual being something we were born. Being transsexual or transgender (or LGB for that matter) is intrinsic to our being.

Perhaps the question should be:  Who would choose at such a young age to be something that is the focus of so much abuse, discrimination and scapegoating?  The big three of the desert based mythologies declare LGBT/T people to be abominations and suggest that murdering us is an appropriate reaction to our being different.

Transsexuals and transgenders wound up aligning politically with the LGB movements in part because of facing common oppressors and the same type rationales for that oppression.

Over the last year or so I have found it increasingly hard to fathom the embrace by so many of the “I’m really intersex” line, particularly by those who fathered children.  My inclination is to say, “So what?”  Too much published by those making up the self identified intersex movement comes off as crazier than what one finds in the TS/TG groups.  A combination of baring stigmata and sharing of stories of one’s having been abducted by space aliens.  You are different and oppressed.  So what?  In many cultures until relatively recently actual intersex kids were abandoned on hillsides at birth.

Trading one form of oppression for another is of questionable value for anything other than possibly claiming innocence and distancing oneself from those evil transsexuals and transgenders. You know, the ones who aren’t so ashamed of what they are that they too make up improbable intersex conditions.

For what it is worth I have noticed that many of those who most proudly proclaim their intersex conditions often have excuses for not getting the same treatments transsexuals and transgenders get to make themselves more comfortable within their bodies.

Perhaps they are convinced that in a John Galt sort of way they as an individual can avoid the hatred and discrimination that falls on transsexual and transgender people, especially those in the lumpen prole class who are all too often employed in the sex industry.

It is true that many if not most people born with transsexualism, homosexuality, transgenderism and the like think science is our friend.  Science provides us with plausible answers as to why we are different from the cis-sexual/gendered, answers that do not stigmatize us as evil.

Some of us even think that embracing sickness models such as GID or AGP/AP is preferable to being “evil”.  This isn’t a liberating line of thought but is rather straight out of the 1950s gay as mental illness model that was embraced by gays and lesbians of that era.

I see a lot of magical thinking in the idea that if science were to conclusively prove innateness that some how that proof would end all the abuse and discrimination we suffer.

Racism and misogyny demonstrate the fallacy of that line of thought.

Likewise we live in a world where more people probably believe in astrology than astronomy.  Where people believe some sort of magical invisible sky daddy created the whole universe rather than the Big Bang.

Were researchers to discover a specific genetic string that cause transsexualism or transgenderism etc there would always be a Caribou Barbie, (Sarah Palin) to wave an M16 as we were loaded into the box cars asking us, “How’s that sciency thing working out for ya?”

Bigotry is rift among the researchers studying us.  Have you ever noticed how it is always “male to female” transsexuals who are stigmatized by this crew of psychiatric professionals?  How much of that is science and how much of it is castration anxiety on the part of male psych theorists cringing at the very thought that we seek out surgery that castrates us and removes the penis in the process of creating our vagina.

Indeed I think the whole root of questioning the motivations behind mate to female transsexualism is predicated upon male supremacy and wondering why one would trade that male supremacy for membership in the class, female, which is considered the lesser sex.

Perhaps the simple answer that we were born this way is unsatisfactory for those looking for the complex answer that satisfies all sorts of questions about sex, gender and identity but it should be enough for us.  Why is it our role in life to provide researchers with subjects to study or answers to complex philosophical questions?

I was born this way.  It ain’t rocket surgery.*

From the movie Boondock Saints II

21 Responses to ““It Ain’t Rocket Surgery!”*”

  1. riki Says:

    I completely agre that there is non point in claiming intersex as some how a less pathological or stigmatised condition – and that aetiology is not as clear as some would make out and is not really the point – human rights for all.
    I don’t know all the stories of people claiming unusual intersex conditions, but i am reminded of the geneticist Haldane’s saying that “the universe is not olnly queerer than we know, it is queerer than we can know” – almost any intersex condition you can imagine, and many that you never would, occur in human and non-human animals.
    It is not true to say that all intersex people are infertile. Many CAH (Congenital Adrenal Hyploplasia) girls are reproductivedly capable, having functional uterus and ovaries even if there is no vaginal opening – in which case if they want to reproduce they need surgeries somewhat similar to male to female trans.
    Similarly with PAIS – partial androgen insesitivity syndrome, some XY chromosome people who only partially respond to androgens are capable of producing viable sperm (if they have not been assigned female and operated on as infants without consent) – also for 5 alpha reductase and 17 Beta deficiency – so called “male at puberty” – again many are capable of producing viable sperm.
    So while the drive to claim intersex conditions is perhaps unfortunate – you can’t just dismiss out of hand all claims by people who have fathered chidren to also have interesex conditions.
    I think the more significant issue is that some trans people claim that only those who get surgery have a neurological condition (brain intersex), while others – eg transgender do not. I don’t think the evidence backs that idea up very clearly – and it doesn’t get to the heart of the question which susan identifies – people have different lived experiences (eg around need for surgery; living in a intermediate gender positon, etc) that should be respected in building an alliance against the people who want to kill us all as deviants.

    • Suzan Says:

      Yeah I can dismiss all those claims of intersex as essentialist bullshit. As an existentialist it is the act of doing the creating of self by ones actions that makes someone. All the intersex bullshit is National enquirer abuducted by space aliens crap. Further some 90% or more of the people carrying on with all this BS are fantasy role playing on line. Many of them do not live full time nor do they take hormones.

      Considering how hard it is to make a functioning dick on an F to M how is it possible that all these people we “born intersex” and turned into males that went on to father children?

      Particularly when the actual documented surgeries mainly made girls. The famous half inch rule went like this: If a female infant has a clitoris longer than 1/2 inch it gets cut down. If a male infant has a penis smaller than 1/2 inch it gets turned into a clitoris and SRS is performed to make a female.

      From this alone logic would suggest there should be a lot more females complaining about having had surgery performed on them.

      Yet in all the noise on all the TG lists it is always from males with the most obscure and improbable conditions.

      Further many of the multiples of xy chromosomes really don’t make one intersex but they often have some pretty unfortunate side effects like strange skeletal development and learning difficulties.

      I also do not believe in brain intersex or male brains and female brains. If anything transsexualism probably has more to do with the hypothalamus and hormone uptake. Hence the feeling uncomfortable within the body and the way the hormones have what is described as a calming effect.

      The whole male brain/female brain is just more misogynistic bullshit aimed at defining women as inferior and justifying denying them equality.

  2. Mish Says:

    This ignores the problem that people do find out they are intersex, and that has certain health implications; health implications that transsexual surgery may well not address. The argument starts with a false premise – an opinion, basically, that people ‘say’ they are intersex because they feel that somehow legitimises their transition. This is patently absurd, because being intersex carries a great deal stigma, starting the day one is born, so much so that (as these comments show) intersex is even stigmatised by trans people. One benefit of being out as intersex is that you don’t have to try and fit the trans narrative, wear dresses and makeup, have bits cut-off, pretend you are a man or woman, none of which will ever adress the real health issues resulting from years of medical neglect after clinicians finished fiddling with you as a kid.

    I have no objection to people being trans, or people who see themselves as having DSDs identifying as men or women, or people who see themselves as having DSDs reassigning – but it would be nice if people who themselves claim marginalisation could respect those who identify differently. I am sure there are people who identify as intersex because they perceive some benefit in this, but to be honest, being intersex is more complex than transitioning, and having an intersex identity is very different from having a transsexual identity. I am not sure it is possible to project the understanding of one onto the other.

    • Suzan Says:

      90% or more of these people who claim to have discovered that they are intersex are fantasy role playing wankers who have invaded the TS/TG groups. Why aren’t they on actual IS lists if they are IS and not TS/TG?

      Further they are a drag on the energies of TS/TG folks who have to listen to their fantasies. Sophie is just about the only authentic IS person I’ve encountered on all these lists in the last 15 years.

      Further I have serious doubt regarding the narrative of “fiddling with the kids”. There aren’t that many hospitals equipped. SRS on adults didn’t get under way on a really wide scale until the 1970 and to this date can’t really build a dick that naturally gets hard that some one can pee out of.

      Add to this how loathe the insurance companies in the US or national health insurances are any where to pay for adult SRS and one has to question where all this funding for very expensive procedures came from.

      This results in Area 51 type fantasies.

  3. Andrea B. Says:

    @ Riki,

    Regarding PAIS and 5 Alpha. Wrong.

    It is not very common for women with CAH to have children, due to health risks to them.

  4. Ishtar Says:

    Hello Riki

    I get the impression you are saying that if you are born with 5 alpha, you get a male puberty and then grow a huge penis and can produce sperm. So, by that reasoning, that is what people with 5 alpha must do? It does not work like that.

    It would be nice if it did because life would be a lot simpler.

    The surgery that is carried out on infants without consent does not really produce a viable vagina and certainly not a penis. Dr john Money had a near blanket feminization policy but it was by no means universal, male assingation did happen, but the credibility gets stretched when someone with a full penis says it was surgically constructed (no they could not do that) Often it was an attempt to patch up what was there and the results were abysmal at best.

    But I would like to know why it always has to be “Assigned girl = bad! Assigned boy = deny, blame, fudge and avoid”

    And I would also like to know why there is this eagerness to define people with PAIS and 5 alpha as “Fertile males” and why therefore the whole thing again gets framed as “Male sexuality”. (Smacks of the Clarke Northwestern to be honest)

    The reality is that if you are born with ambigious genitalia surgery either way is not very effective, and yes it is done without consent and too many people have too many opinions. leaving it almost impossible to explain what actually did happen.

    The problem I have with those who “Claim intersex” is that they then make the discussion about thier urban myths. People keep hitting me with “Why didn’t you grow a penis, how dare you not grow a penis” (Why would I want to?) Also people keep saying “Male assignation didn’t happen” surgically it was near impossible, but it didn’t stop surgeons saying “Boy!” while wileding a tape measure and trying to “Tidy things up” (Which never worked). Actually in some cases the surgical attempts to masculinize a child ruined any possbility of them mascilinizing later on in life to something they would consider acceptable.

    The reality did not involve surgeons being able to make functoning reproductive organs, and the reality was often very messy. This is why I did not appreciate people like Chase and Tree spouting over simplistic “Intersex narratives” when few of them were even possible.

    We never got to hear about the F to M folks who use 5 alpha when saying “I am intersex really” one such person has just managed to strip all with 5 alpha in the UK of thier legal rights.

    Can’t we just have the truth instead of peope saying that people with intersex conditions are “This or that sex really” (Often a sex that is imposed arbitrarily with few or any viable physical markers) and can we please not have this “5 alpha = fertile male” because I am sorry it does not.

  5. Riki Says:

    OK suzan – good point about why people are on ts/tg lists. perhaps if someone did have one of these late hormonal changes that seem so unusual then their lived experience is more like TS/TG than intersex. In which case why would they keep talking about the intersex aspect?
    Andrea, Ishtar – I do understand that fertility is problematic for most intersex people – all I am saying is that it does occur and that there are unusual things that happen.
    I am not saying that there is some magical transformation in most people with 5-alpha or PAIS – however see the references below.
    It does depend on your definition of intersex in any case – many of the identified genetic variants have “incomplete penetrance”, so there are fertile people who do not know they have a genetic variant and never get tested.

    According to the AISSG, with PAIS there is a seven point grading system and the two mildest grades are sometimes fertile
    http://www.medhelp.org/ais/23_PAIS.HTM

    International Journal of Pediatric Endocrinology
    Volume 2009 (2009), Article ID 567430, 7 pages
    doi:10.1155/2009/567430
    Review Article
    46,XY DSD with Female or Ambiguous External Genitalia at Birth due to Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, 5α-Reductase-2 Deficiency, or 17β-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase Deficiency: A Review of Quality of Life Outcomes
    Amy B. Wisniewski1 and Tom Mazur2

    On PAIS
    3.7. Fertility and Sexual Function in PAIS
    At the present time fertility is challenging, but not impossible, for individuals with PAIS raised male [39, 40].
    L. Gooren, “Improvement of spermatogenesis after treatment with the antiestrogen tamoxifen in a man with the incomplete androgen insensitivity syndrome,” The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, vol. 68, no. 6, pp. 1207–1210, 1989.
    A. Giwercman, T. Kledal, M. Schwartz, et al., “Preserved male fertility despite decreased androgen sensitivity caused by a mutation in the ligand-binding domain of the androgen receptor gene,” The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, vol. 85, no. 6, pp. 2253–2259, 2000.

    And Amy B. Wisniewski1 and Tom Mazur2
    again on 5-Alpha
    4.2. Fertility and Sexual Function in 5-RD-2 Deficiency

    Both sperm production and paternity have been documented in men affected by 5-RD-2 deficiency [43, 45–48]. High-dose androgen therapy improves virilization, erectile response and ejaculatory volume in individuals reared male [45].

    M. D. Katz, I. Kligman, L.-Q. Cai, et al., “Paternity by intrauterine insemination with sperm from a man with 5α-reductase-2 deficiency,” The New England Journal of Medicine, vol. 336, no. 14, pp. 994–997, 1997.
    P. Price, J. A. H. Wass, J. E. Griffin, et al., “High dose androgen therapy in male pseudohermaphroditism due to 5α-reductase deficiency and disorders of the androgen receptor,” Journal of Clinical Investigation, vol. 74, no. 4, pp. 1496–1508, 1984.
    L.-Q. Cai, C. M. Fratianni, T. Gautier, and J. Imperato-McGinley, “Dihydrotestosterone regulation of semen in male pseudohermaphrodites with 5α-reductase-2 deficiency,” The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, vol. 79, no. 2, pp. 409–414, 1994.
    Z. Hochberg, R. Chayen, N. Reiss, et al., “Clinical, biochemical, and genetic findings in a large pedigree of male and female patients with 5α-reductase 2 deficiency,” The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, vol. 81, no. 8, pp. 2821–2827, 1996.
    A. Nordenskjöld and S.-A. Ivarsson, “Molecular characterization of 5α-reductase type 2 deficiency and fertility in a Swedish family,” The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, vol. 83, no. 9, pp. 3236–3238, 1998.

    • Suzan Says:

      Yeah, yeah the role players have their fantasies well researched. Sort of like Ann Coulter’s footnotes.

      Why is it that when I read all these foot notes does it seem like I hear the sound of one hand typing?

      BTW you seem familiar like you might be a sock puppet of another Aussie.

  6. Riki Says:

    Hey no I am not Zoe Brain!

    Neither am I intersex or TS – “just a cross dresser” who is writing a PhD at La Trobe university on the political and social implications of the brain sex theory of transsexuality – because it matters to the political struggles against the people who want to kill me because they don’t like my gender expression.

    I don’t have a website but if you want to check who I am, you can read my reply to Dreger’s stuff
    Lane, R. 2008. Truth, lies, and trans science. Arch Sex Behav 37 (3):453-6.
    and an article I wrote in Hypatia
    Lane, Riki. 2009. Trans as Bodily Becoming: Rethinking the Biological as Diversity, Not Dichotomy. Hypatia 24 (3):136-157.

    I’ll email them if you like.

  7. Andrea B. Says:

    @ Riki/Zoe

    You don’t have 5 alpha, 17β-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase Deficiency or PAIS.

  8. Ishtar Says:

    Hello Riki

    You are referring to the Quigley scale. and the way that seems to get used in online debate is interesting. Like how grades 1 and 2 always get the “We can make em men!” commentaries. I am not being funny but in this area fertility is seen as a huge marker of “normal” so I tend to regard the sort of documentation you are quoting as an “Armtwist by proxy” than actual observations on issues around fertility and so on.

    I agree that unusual things do happen, but when I read things like “Oh I had a vagina behind my scrotum” and “I had a uterus in my lung”. It goes into the realm of urban myth. And people expect me to conform to urban myths or describe various parts of their fiction. I cannot do that. I can only say what actually happened.

    A quick note on the papers you are quoting they refer to specific mutations, in the AR (Androgen Receptor) Database there are something like 50 commonly observed mutations that lead to AIS at various points along the Quigley scale. so that paper cannot be used in a universal context when describing fertilty because different mutations effect “potential fertility” differently.

    As for the 5 alpha paper.

    “Both sperm production and paternity have been documented in men affected by 5-RD-2 deficiency [43, 45–48]. High-dose androgen therapy improves virilization, erectile response and ejaculatory volume in individuals reared male.”

    I cannot think of a polite way to respond to that quite frankly, other than say that some quacks want to play brutalise and chemically butcher as they do with Klinefelters. Like they always slip the “Therapy” in just before the legal age of consent, as “Standard practice”.

    Do you know why this stupidity is enforeced the way it is? because some seem to think that people with 5 alpha spontaneosly change from female to male during thier teens (Urban myth) and everyone who is diagnosed “Must obey that or else.” Well they don’t and some dont want to.

  9. Edith Says:

    “try and fit the trans narrative, wear dresses and makeup, have bits cut-off, pretend you are a man or woman”

    nice touch, Mish

    “it would be nice if people who themselves claim marginalisation could respect those who identify differently”

    Is that all it’s about – “identifying”? What I keep hearing is “it better be a “trans narrative” or else – endless ridicule. In other worlds my available choices seem to be either ridicule or ridicule. Of course, I’m married w/ children, so what is it? Ted Bundy in a dress pretending to be a woman? Wouldn’t it be nice is a song by the Beach Boys.

    I don’t see how anyone reading this stuff could come to any other conclusion than one that makes the determination we’re all crazy. There is no light being shed here.

    What am I supposed to do accept the fact I am nothing more than a deluded, mutilated man. That is not the way it is Mish. You don’t have a clue about my bits.

  10. Véronique Says:

    I know a lot of trans people, but the only people I know who claim to have intersex conditions are those who really do. I have no problem with the fact that I was born with a 46,XY karyotype (not verified but no reason to think otherwise), typically male genitalia (fertility undetermined), and transsexualism. I thought more about etiology before I had SRS, mainly because I’m a curious kind of woman. Now I spend more time just living. Whatever made me transsexual, it is what it is.

    As for sex differences in the brain, it doesn’t really matter what you or anyone believes, only what scientific research has found — tiny but real differences that environment and human behaviour then commonly exacerbate. Science should always remain apolitical (and too often has not been).

  11. Mish Says:

    I agree that it is pointless being intersex on a TS/TG group. I apologise if my comment about chopping bits off seemed harsh. The point is wanted to make is that surgery is seen as an important part of transsexual treatment, and has been used as an important part of intersex treatment for many years – long before the 1970s. The 1970s simply saw a change in approach which originated in the states, summed up by the ‘easier to dig a hole than build a pole’ which intersex activists who tend to see intersex as a feminist issue trot out at certain meetings. Yet the first FtM SRS pre-dated the first MtF SRS by nearly a decade (1940s). Before the 1970s (outside the USA anyway) kids were as likely to be assigned male as female – and have surgeries to reinforce this; these surgeries were for things that are now listed under the new DSD system (which I oppose) and applied to those assigned male as well as female.

    It is quite feasable for somebody who is trans to discover some form of intersex. If we lived in a world where people 30-50 years ago knew what they now know, and hadn’t approached intersex with such a sense of shame that medical records were destroyed when people who were considered ‘cured’ of intersex became adults, then there could be something to be said for this idea that they are all fantasists (and I am skeptical in some cases, such as those who have parented, although am aware that very occasionally intersex people can be potentially fertile – but also aware that some treatments guarantee infertililty). People may go through a period of conflict and questioning around their gender on the way to discovering that they are different from most men and women, and because the trans narrative is the dominant one in the media, that is the one that is available for people to latch on to.

    I do not see surgery as a cure for intersex in the way it is for trans, and feel it would be better for intersex people to have access to clear intersex narratives rather than adopting a trans narrative. Hopefully they will appreciate that there are other ways to manage the conflict that arises from their unhappiness with the original gender assignment than a path that ultimately leads to surgery. I am in favour of establishing a space where people can claim a positive intersex identity – without being categorised as trans, or submitting to transsexual-style treatments. People should be free to identify as they wish, and have the treatments they choose (or can afford).

    Seems to me there is as big a problem with intersex people identifying as trans as there is trans people identifying as intersex – especially when there is such resistance to idea that some people might overlap both categories. Of course, some people do, but they get such grief, why would they bother?

    At least 6% of intersex people grow up to reject their assignment (Zucker), and that it is estimated that 1% of the population have intersex (Vilain, Diamond), then that would represent a significant proportion of the trans community if they were to identify as trans.

    • Suzan Says:

      It is quite possible that 90% of everything that has been written about intersex has been bullshit. More alien abductions than truth. More a matter of infant surgeries being highly experimental than any form of common practice.

      But I am also willing to bet that 99% of all the claims coming from adults who fathered or bore children (Oh wait one doesn’t hear most of these claims from people assigned women or who bore children) are internet fantasy role playing by old transvestites who are the demographic that buys Sandy Thomas and Behind the Pink Door fiction.

  12. Mish Says:

    PS. I agree with much of what you say that is not covered by the above. And just to be clear, Edith, when I say ‘pretend’ to be male or female, that is talking about my experience from my perspective – not the experience of trans people. The statements were about how I see being ‘out’ as intersex – rather than identifying as intersex and/or transsexual – that I personally do not need to do stuff that seems important to people who identify as transsexual. Ideally, I would like it if no intersex person felt they had to alter their bodies to conform to some notion of maleness or femaleness, just as much as I would like it if other people hadn’t taken it upon themselves to do that on our behalf before we had any say in the matter.

  13. Lisa Harney Says:

    I like this post, Susan. I don’t care about why people are transgender or transsexual, I care that people get what they need in practical terms, and that their existence is acknowledged as valid and deserving of what they need.

    I’m also tired of the research done on trans people to find causes, which doesn’t actually do anything to help us. All that money spent to find minor genetic variations that don’t even exist across all trans people when it could have been spent on research to demonstrate, for example, that trans people typically do a lot better once we’ve secured access to transition-based care and don’t have to fight bureaucratic red tape just to be legally recognized.

    But that’s just me.

    Also, yeah, tired of the “transsexual is intersex” narrative going on. It feels like a lot of energy spent simply to swap chairs around, plus the appropriation.

  14. Edith Says:

    Mish,

    I could go on about this at legnth. I have my own perspective. I know how different I am from you. Intersex people are seldom transsexual just as others seldom are but things are much more complicated than that, aren’t they?

    No one wants to hear it though. Everyone’s a this or that – trans/cis, gay/straight, male/female but it seems the rarest condition of is non-oppressive. It’s the me/you binary that’s grabbed a hold of everyone. That’s the most powerful one.

    I try to be myself. The problem is there are legal distinctions and the issue of respect. I don’t like categories but I function better as female. I know it. It seems the only way to be who you are in this world is to go far away where no one has an agenda, when confronted with problematic people like me, or you, which forces them to decide we are not who we are. I have had more than enough of having people deciding who and what I am by what’s most convenient for them at an given moment.

    Also, I cannot tell you about your body but I can tell you about mine. It is not only an anatomical thing. Both endocrinologically and anatomically I am much better off this way. Obviously, it is not for everyone, not even someone who may be able to live convincingly and successfully in the female role.

  15. Willow Arune Says:

    One of my best friends is a true intersex person – her hospital records show “F?” at birth. But those ar rare. For the rest of us, I agree fully with your treatise.

    My personal belief is that too many transsexuals wish to avoid any responsibility for their decision to transition. They want to blame it on something totally and absolutely beyond theri control toi justify their actions in some manner acceptable to their inner needs. And the simple fact remains – we do not know “Why”.We can each hold to a certain belief, but that is all we have. Rather like a religion it seems to me – at least for the zealots out ther who find theri “truth” and then demand all others accept it. It is also a status thing, a way of saying “I am better than you are because…” and further dividing our small groups.

    One can understand. A husband and father turns to transition and has to justify his actions to a long term wife and children. To be within his control is selfish. Therefore, he must present a reason that is outside of his control. Yet we know many who delay transition for years due to children and other social needs. And others still who decide not to go forward.

    I can understand using such excuses to avoid long explanations to strangers and such, but the truth is, we do not know and bear some or all of the rsponcibilty of our dcisions to change. The other is window dressing for the minds of others.

    • Suzan Says:

      There is this Christo-fascist based guilt tripping of male to female transsexuals that come out later in life that I find odd.

      You see I am a humanist and not a believer in ancient mythology. The idea of marriage for life originated at a time when 40 was ancient and women very often died as a result of bearing children.

      I have on my desk a book about “secondary” lesbians, women who come out at about the same age as those late emerging transsexuals. It might just be constructive to look at how the guilt tripping, shame, misogyny, homophobia/transphobia causes people to go to all sorts of lengths to deny who they really feel they are.

      People change and people grow apart. Middle age is a time when people are reborn. It is as much of a turning point for many people as entering into adulthood but with a difference because in middle age one can look back as well as forward. But this is turning into a post and not a comment and one of our computers is down with Mcafee’s We used to be a trusted Virus Protection but we are going to pull a Sarah Palin and go Rogue problem that needs attention.

  16. Nicky Says:

    @Willow Arune

    I agree with you that their are way too many transsexuals who are using the intersex name to avoid responsibility for their transition and are using the intersex name as an excuse for their transition. It’s just like they want to pass the buck to someone else and blame their existence on something else and something they don’t have, but make a convincing alibi.


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