Lynn Conway on Kenneth Zucker

13 Responses to “Lynn Conway on Kenneth Zucker”

  1. Diana Says:

    I have mixed feelings about the GID/DSM thing. On the one hand, it is hugely insulting and inaccurate. OTOH, it would be helpful if transsexuality were recognized as some sort of condition requiring treatment so that people that cannot afford surgery can get some help from insurance.

    I pretty much broke myself financially (at least for the sort-term) when I had the surgery. I went to the person I consider the best. I was not about to go with the low bidder for this.

    IMO this is not fair. SRS cannot be regarded as “elective surgery” for someone like me. It is NOT like a facelift. And there are relatively few of us, so the insurance benefit could be provided without great cost overall.

    The best answer probably is to recognize this as a medical condition, but that may take a while. And some will go to their grave without needed correction.

  2. sueann173 Says:

    Now that I am commenting in the right article 🙂

    ——————————————————————–
    I don’t have a lot of sympathy for Conway or a lot of interest in that dog and cat fight. I don’t see where the Pro Trannys have done any of us any good even Conway has done more harm then good. Conway and company have seen an opportunity to grab an additional fifteen minutes of fame in the spotlight at the cost of those of us who are classical TS.

    While I have my own axe to grind this is not the place or the time for that issue.

  3. tinagrrl Says:

    Errr — I think Lynn Conway was already famous.

    “Thousands of chip designers learned their craft from Lynn’s book, Introduction to VLSI Systems, which she co-authored with Professor Carver Mead of Caltech. Thousands more did their first VLSI design projects using the government’s MOSIS prototyping system, which is based directly on Lynn’s work at PARC. Much of the modern silicon chip design revolution is based on her work.”

    I really do not see her as a “Pro-Tranny”, nor do I see her engaging those who pathologize us as a bid for additional fame.

    I really do not understand all the anger toward her.

  4. Suzan Says:

    Diana sez: “I have mixed feelings about the GID/DSM thing. On the one hand, it is hugely insulting and inaccurate. OTOH, it would be helpful if transsexuality were recognized as some sort of condition requiring treatment so that people that cannot afford surgery can get some help from insurance.”

    I don’t know about your world but I’m more concerned about having been part of the uninsured underemployed working poor masses much of my life than the idea that insurance might cover SRS for some one privileged enough to have it.

    It pretty much costs about the same as an econo car. Or if you go to Thailand the cost of a used Volkswagen Golf/Rabbit.

    BTW that is less than it cost to have my wrist repaired when I slipped on the ice and broke it badly in 2003.

    It is less in today’s dollars than it was in 1972 when I worked two jobs, hustled and borrowed money to cover it.

  5. sueann173 Says:

    Tina;
    Perhaps we we are not seeing the term defined the same way.
    See the post Suzanne directed at me for more information in the comments. You will find my explanation in the comments section.

    I didn’t grow up in a TS or TG or GLBT ghetto so my experiences are much different then some here.
    I grew up with and transitioned around normal people.

    S

  6. Suzan Says:

    Sue sez: “I didn’t grow up in a TS or TG or GLBT ghetto.”

    Well la dee da. Bless your little heart.

    FYI I grew up in the “Sticks”, a poverty stricken small town. I too didn’t live in the Ghetto.

    Indeed I was part of a generation you were afraid of because we had the guts to do it and if we lived in a ghetto with other sisters it was because that was where housing was cheap and it got cheaper when shared.

    As for your adoration of “Normies” I work retail and I haven’t met any “normal people”. Either among my co-workers or among my customers. Scratch the most normal appearing and you find the inner freak. It might be religious, it might be political… They could be a Republican or love Bush.

    Normal doesn’t exist and if it did the world would be extremely dull.

  7. sueann173 Says:

    “Indeed I was part of a generation you were afraid of because we had the guts to do it and if we lived in a ghetto with other sisters it was because that was where housing was cheap and it got cheaper when shared.”

    hardly you are like 15 years older than I.
    your just old enough to be one of my parents.
    and a bitter old woman at that.

    I am not going to sit here and play oneupManship with you, I don’t need to to validate myself, that happened when i was 22, and I haven’t needed anybody’s validation since.

    I don’t my past to justify who I am today, it only reminds me of where I have been and who I was; Not where I am going and who I am today.

    Take care
    S

  8. Suzan Says:

    Bitter? Hardly…

    You sound more and more like a troll.

    If you don’t have to justify yourself or your past and you are so perfect why are you trolling WBT and other Trans Blogs?

  9. sueann173 Says:

    Well I thought since I was borne with the same birth defect I would find some common ground, resonance if you will.

    Apparently I was wrong.

    I don’t agree with you therefore I am a troll.
    Most people will look at how you attack people you don’t even know and consider the source and move on.

    Yah okay, whatever you want

    Since I replied to that one post about you and your book over on TS-SI I have had plenty of time to read your comments on the net, I shouldn’t be surprised by your actions here.

    Oh well live and learn I guess.

    Take care
    S

  10. tinagrrl Says:

    “I didn’t grow up in a TS or TG or GLBT ghetto so my experiences are much different then some here.
    I grew up with and transitioned around normal people.”

    What does that mean? How do you manage to judge others with so little knowledge about their circumstances?

    Most of us “grew up and transitioned around ‘normal’ people”. To suggest otherwise without knowing their details is an unwarranted, classist, attack.

    I suspect those who did “grow up in the ghetto” did so simply because they had no where else to go. Throwaway kids who were lucky enough to survive — lucky enough not to fall into the hands of abusers and crazies (though often “normal”).

    To use the term “classical transsexual” — without defining what you mean — allows you to use it as a justification for your views anytime you see fit. In addition, you can vary the definition at will.

    I’m afraid the assumptions shown tend to greatly diminish the force of your arguments.

    Most post-ops / WBT’s / HBS folks get there however they can. There are a lot of different roads. Many don’t make it.

    There are also those who make mistakes. Those who cannot accept the reality of being “just a Woman”, and moving on with their lives. Some seem to find their bearings and get over being “special”. It can take time.

    If you take a “classical transsexual” who is discarded by family at 12, 13, 14, you have a child “raised by wolves”. If they make it to adulthood, they have accomplished a difficult task.

    Perhaps they could use dome help and guidance — not cold rejection.

  11. sueann173 Says:

    Hi Tina;
    the phrase was taken out of context let me quote what I said.
    “I didn’t grow up in a TS or TG or GLBT ghetto so my experiences are much different then some here.
    I grew up with and transitioned around normal people.”

    Apparently our host likes to selectively quote things out of contest to support her attacks on others.

    I don’t play political correctness mind games.

    I wish Suzanne all the best,
    This place is not for me and only serves to remind me of what is wrong with some parts of the TS community.

    I don’t see any point in continuing here where our host attacks people then calls them a troll for defending themselves.

    Our host has issues.

    Take care
    S

  12. Suzan Says:

    Buh Bye Sue Ann Robins.
    Have fun with your friends Willow and Lisanne

  13. tinagrrl Says:

    I quoted exactly.

    Instead of addressing the issues, you claim “out of context”, then go on the attack.

    There is no debate involved — it’s just attack and “talking points”.

    You are not a worthy opponent.


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