What business does a Zucker, Bailey, Blanchard, Money Draeger etc have doing research on us?
Isn’t it sort of akin to having the KKK do research studies on African Americans?
Are we some sort non-human animal that lacks the intellectual capacity to do the research ourselves if we are so inclined?
Further Blanchard and Baileys research, if you want to call it that, is purely anecdotal and yet it is treated as though carved in stone by some invisible sky person. When we counter with our own stories they are dismissed as being unreliable, purely anecdotal and untrustworthy.
Now once upon a time I used to be cowed by people with academic degrees, especially those with doctorates but I’ve known enough over the years to know that it is first of all much easier for a dick to get a Ph.D. than a woman due to the male affirmative action which means they only have to work half as hard and be half as smart as a woman to be considered her better. Also there are whole lots of nasty scumbags with degrees. Further lots of degrees are kind of sketchy to start with.
On the whole this means Lynn Conway and Andrea James come off as far more credible than BBZM & L.
But there are a couple of folks I tend to recommend people also read. Jay Prosser, “Second Skins” and anything by Viviene Namaste.
We have some pretty smart people of our own.
Now I have a history that interweaves my dealing with my transsexualism and many of the left wing liberation movements that have occurred since the 1960s and I have learned one very important thing. Question Authority. If they make some sort of assertion and you think it is a bunch of bullshit ask the most important question of all. Why?
Subject their bullshit to Occam’s Razor.
I assumed I acquired my gender identity because of the same factors non-transsexuals do. This causes me to think that much of psychiatry has no more basis in science than does religion.
Especially since neither is verifiable by testing.
Women Born Transsexual 
March 1, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Exactly. Why on Earth do these people think they get to “study” us? Who the hell are they to tell us *what* we are? It’s not like any of us are asking for their special brand of help, it’s only that they have seized power and are holding it over our heads.
It gets tiresome hearing from the TG crowd that we need to be in the DSM for their sake. Why? What benefit do I get from being labeled mentally ill? We don’t get insurance coverage -specifically- BECAUSE we are in the DSM! It is not helping; it is keeping the real answers from coming to light and allowing insurers to continue the lack of coverage.
The US is not like Europe with the social health system and the ICD-10 there. And because they do have the ICD-10, I fail to see how the editorial process of inclusion in the DSM is important at all with regard to “rights”.
Perhaps the crossdressers and others (what else is there, I don’t understand that crowd really) do feel they benefit from having some kind of “official” statement that they, and all transsexuals by association (somehow), are mentally ill. But it does not help a WBT one little bit. That is another way the association is harming us, while benefiting the certain TG elements, I suppose.
Really though, I don’t think many people really want to be in the little black book of sins. Crossdressers don’t need the social stigma, and neither do we. There are probably very few people among the crowd that supports inclusion of gender issues in the DSM that really understand what it means.
I’ve been asking myself lately… what good has ever come from psychiatry? Most of what we’ve witnessed coming out of the psych establishment have them acting as brutal agents of social conformity. Labeling people deranged for not bowing to the will of the masters, all the way back to its beginning.
These days certain people are using it as a smokescreen for their support of eugenics, under the guise of “evolutionary” science. They are hoping to “cure” the human race of suffering those of us born different.
Why do these people get an opinion about my existence?
March 1, 2009 at 8:49 pm
The reality is of course we don’t. But then when you see how the likes of Marci Bowers has aligned herself with the transgender camp (at least that is how it looks from here) It does make make you wonder? But then of course there is Stephanie Lawrence. *shudder*
There is so much misinformation comming from all sorts of people who should probably know better, but don’t, that ever likely Jo (on the street) Blow is confused. What if someone was to write and organise a survey on the net right now perhaps through this blog, what do you think would happen? Sure you’d get so many replies your head would spin. All from the wrong folks. Well meaning folks but not folks “fakes”
What needs to happen is a workable model of taxonomy established that eliminates the fakes before they can skew the results. Transgender do it against us, why not do it for Us. Problem is it wouldn’t make it any more valid than the ones we currently rail against.
Transsexuality or HBS needs a definition that stands scientific scrutiny supported by genuine transsexual women (and men) who are prepared to stand up and be counted. Trouble is most of the genuine people out there are too assimilated into society with too much to lose if they “came out”
March 1, 2009 at 9:49 pm
You know I went to a big F to M conference in Burbank nearly 10 years ago.
I was invited because of my involvement in the NTCU, which was funded by Reed Erickson, an F to M.
That conference was what solidified my opinion that there was no such thing as THE transgender communities but rather there were numerous groups that had a few common interests.
It isn’t in anyone of our particular interests to see abomination clauses from Leviticus or Deuteronomy turned into DSM entries.
Now I actually thought that some sort of transgender unity on some of the discrimination and hate crimes thing was a good thing. I still think it is a good thing as long as transsexual doesn’t get erased by this umbrella.
I actually think that more than surveys we need to talk among ourselves and yes with transgenders and transvestites too.
I doubt most heterosexual married transvestites are all that happy with being considered the same as people with transsexualism who get sex change operations. Just as we are not happy being associated with them.
But I have known some CD/TVs on line and I doubt that the picture the psych establishment paints of them is any more accurate than the one they paint of us.
Getting people to understand that the differences are okay and that transsexual isn’t a goal to be achieved goes a long way in keeping some people from getting carried away.
Evangelina… Other than trowing verbal rocks back at certain TG Activists I don’t particularly hate transgender people, one of my lovers was transgender and several of my best friends over the years were also.
I just want a respect of boundaries. Simply saying TS/TG instead of just TG goes a long way.
I’m also not going to attack WBTs who use transgender. Both Andrea James and Lynn Conway and they are a couple of sisters I highly respect.
Not one of us has all the answers but together we can do far better than the BBZMG & Ls of the world.
March 1, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Andrea James?…give me a friggin break.
March 1, 2009 at 11:26 pm
And who are you SA-ET to pass judgment on Andrea James?
A hotmail account and some initials.
Show me something you have done?
March 1, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Suzan, I spent a little more than two years counselling working with those with cross-sex issues of all descriptions. I don’t hate those who identify as transgender either. Fact is I don’t “hate” anyone. I just don’t want to be press-ganged into their club. As for transvestites and cross dressers, I owe my life to a couple of them, literally.
Perhaps it may help if I outline a few of the things I would like to see happen.
a) HBS/transsexual out of the DSM and equivilants
b) a clear description of HBS/transsexuality on a proper scientific basis.
c) Philosophical and medical distance between autogynophilia and HBS/TS
d) Philosophical distance between transgender and HBS/transsexuality
e) recognition that HBS/transsexuality is not a different kind of gay.
There are a few other things too like no sex discrimination, No wars, no poverty, no racism, and no bigotry but we’ll leave those for another forum.
In short I think we are very much on the same page. For the record I’ve left a few forums because of the hatred targeted at transgender identified people. Like you, I simply believe we are separate entities.
March 2, 2009 at 8:12 am
What have I done? With regards to anything even vaguely related to gender…absolutely nothing. Nor do I intend to. I won’t be working in gender clinics. I won’t be marching in Pride Parades. And, I certainly will not be a trans activist as James and Calpernia “I’m-a-showgirl-not-a-drag-queen” Addams claim, as they continue to further stereotypes I’d rather not be associated with. I blog, but for no other reason than to relieve my own frustrations at the colonization attempts on transsexualism. I’ve been around as long as you, Suzan, but not half as visible…by choice.
http://tgnonsense.wordpress.com/
March 2, 2009 at 8:34 am
BBL is debunked (it actually was as it was still Blanchards own theory)
http://www.genderpsychology.org/autogynephilia/ray_blanchard/index.html
and was not recognized by therapists, only Anne (not Stephanie) Lawrence pushed it and then Bailey with his book.
But still nearly every psychotherapist, psychoanalyst, you name it, has his/her own developmental theorie and complitly ignores the biological findings.
I asked a biologist what she thinks is the problem and she answered:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8788527586464580894&postID=3562481089127657468&pli=1
I see great problems when one tends to look only on their own problems. I had long diskussions with represantives of the german intersexcommunity that added to every press realease who intersex is not transsexuality and the later is a psychological condition (wich was then eventually written by the authors) If the IS and the TG had not worked together in australia, the “undefiened” gender entry would have had no chance. But the IS community I know was very angry that articles about that named it for being for IS and TS. Thats when all gets confused (TS don’t need a third gender for shure). TG are not the enemy of TS, TS are not the enemy of IS but many, in their need to prioritorize their own needs, nearly fight a war.
Its divide and quonquer – perfect at work. And TG as umbrella term comes from the outdside. Since there was no word for “everything that falls outside of the essentialist definition of man and women”. And that is true for TS, too.
By the way. The german IS community stopped the habbit of stigmatizing TS after long discussions.
March 2, 2009 at 1:36 pm
[…] I answered truthfully to Suzan’s question when I asked what I had done as compared to the Andrea James’ of the world…absolutely […]
March 2, 2009 at 5:27 pm
I don’t have a lot of sympathy for Conway or a lot of interest in that dog and cat fight. I don’t see where the Pro Trannys have done any of us any good even Conway has done more harm then good. Conway and company have seen an opportunity to grab an additional fifteen minutes of fame in the spotlight at the cost of those of us who are classical TS.
While I have my own axe to grind this is not the place or the time for that issue.
March 2, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Woops wrong article……..
March 3, 2009 at 12:03 am
I find it very interesting that we, the WBT / Post-Op / HBS “Community” have our own “behavior police”.
We have no qualms judging those of us who do not meet OUR particular group of “standards”.
We tend to complain about prejudice against us from the “outside” — but don’t hesitate one second when one of us doesn’t follow our ideas of “proper behavior”.
Straight WBT’s who have disdain for Lesbian Sisters. Others who think two WBT’s forming a relationship is “wrong” — all sorts of ideas that serve to keep us apart.
Not only is the term “Trans-Community” an oxymoron, the entire idea “WBT / Post-Op / HBS Community” is false.
We are all different individuals — the best we can do is have acceptance for one another — and learn to work together for common goals.
So many of us are very strong individuals, otherwise we could not have done what we did. In addition, we often think WE know “what’s right” (“It’s as plain as the nose on your face.”), and give short shrift to those who do not agree.
Once again, the triumph of style over substance.
March 3, 2009 at 8:42 am
HBS, women of transsexual history, WBT or whatever we call it is a medical condition. We should strive not to beat each other up over political ideology because frankly we are all over the board on that as is almost any group that has a medical condition as it’s common ground.
This condition is separate from sexual orientation, I should not have to remind anyone of that, it’s basic. Three days ago I met a gay male attorney who shocked me to the core, he not only understood the TG vs. TS problem, he totally got it……….before meeting him I would have said that was virtually impossible, but there you are.
I tried for years to get trans-activists to just make the simple concession of saying transgender and transsexual and without exception was villified and or banned from the discussion for heresy. They will NOT do that, ever, because the minute they do, they lose the medical legitimacy of the term transsexual which is why it is dragged under the transgender umbrella in the first place.
That attorney related to me his own encounters with trans-activists where they claimed to speak for us but when confronted with the question of whether or not we’d object to that got the admission “we were a problem for them and disagreed with them because we were elitist snobs.”